Communion - Bread and Wine

[Botz]

OK, now this I have something to comment on.

But, The OT is not for us to actually learn how to perform worship. That is what the NT is for. We learn about God's nature in the OT but we learn the tactics of worship in the NT.

I do not follow your train of thought. How do you learn how to perform worship without the Psalms?

What acts of worship are you getting from Psalms?

The Psalms are one big collection of worship. I am seriously not following your train of thought.

What particular acts of worship does Psalms define? I am not discussing your attitude or behavior in worship but particular acts of or what you actually perform as worship to God.

Ok, can you define worship then? I am as confused as Nebula as to your train of thought here...

In Jewish thought, the highest form of worship is the study of Torah.

[UncleAbee]

OK, now this I have something to comment on.

But, The OT is not for us to actually learn how to perform worship. That is what the NT is for. We learn about God's nature in the OT but we learn the tactics of worship in the NT.

I do not follow your train of thought. How do you learn how to perform worship without the Psalms?

What acts of worship are you getting from Psalms?

The Psalms are one big collection of worship. I am seriously not following your train of thought.

What particular acts of worship does Psalms define? I am not discussing your attitude or behavior in worship but particular acts of or what you actually perform as worship to God.

Ok, can you define worship then? I am as confused as Nebula as to your train of thought here...

Worship is "how you respond to God." It involves your attitude and what you physically perform. In John 4:23 Jesus says - "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers." Worship involves two elements. 1) Spirit. This is your spirit or your attitude. It must be from the heart. 2) Truth. It must be done the right way. It can't be unscriptural. You must do the right things. If we do the right things with the right attitude we achieve worship.My question is not on the spirit of worship but on the truth of worship. Where does Psalms give you this part? How do you know what acts of worship to perform?

[UncleAbee]

We are connected to the Jews through Christ. We are sons of Abraham spiritually. The Jews are physically the sons of Abraham. All who believe and obey Christ have been adopted into the family. The Jews today will not be saved unless they do it through Christ. We need to bring the Jews forward to Christ and not go back with them and try to identify with OT ways. The land of Israel is unimportant. Physically being an Israelite is unimportant. What is important is Christ and all who believe in Him. Christ is for everyone and when you enter into His body you become one with Christ and nothing else (Gal 3:28).

This is a theological trainwreck. I don't even know where to begin...

Well......begin somewhere. How is anyone saved outside of Christ? The Jews will not be saved unless they accept Christ unless there is another gospel that Christ taught. Did Christ not command salvation through faith in Him? What did Paul say about salvation in Romans ch 4? I suggest you read the entire chapter. Christ brought all together in one body (Gal 3:26-29). What you physically are, where you physically live, etc. no longer matters. What does matter is your faith in Christ. That's all that matters and it makes us all heirs of Abraham.

UncleAbee, shiloh357, is not really into replacement theology

I don't know what replacement theology is. I do know that no one will be saved outside of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We must all believe in His death, burial, and resurrection. We must make Christ the Lord of our lives.

[Fez]

OK, now this I have something to comment on.

But, The OT is not for us to actually learn how to perform worship. That is what the NT is for. We learn about God's nature in the OT but we learn the tactics of worship in the NT.

I do not follow your train of thought. How do you learn how to perform worship without the Psalms?

What acts of worship are you getting from Psalms?

The Psalms are one big collection of worship. I am seriously not following your train of thought.

What particular acts of worship does Psalms define? I am not discussing your attitude or behavior in worship but particular acts of or what you actually perform as worship to God.

Ok, can you define worship then? I am as confused as Nebula as to your train of thought here...

Worship is "how you respond to God." It involves your attitude and what you physically perform. In John 4:23 Jesus says - "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers." Worship involves two elements. 1) Spirit. This is your spirit or your attitude. It must be from the heart. 2) Truth. It must be done the right way. It can't be unscriptural. You must do the right things. If we do the right things with the right attitude we achieve worship.My question is not on the spirit of worship but on the truth of worship. Where does Psalms give you this part? How do you know what acts of worship to perform?

I am still not really "with" you.

Getting down on our knees, singing, raising our hands, dancing, playing instruments, and straightforward prayer is all worship. (Check Psalms, Habbakuk and a host of others?).

How do I know what acts to perform? Usually the Spirit leads me.

Or are you talking about formal, doctrine type worship?

[Fez]

We are connected to the Jews through Christ. We are sons of Abraham spiritually. The Jews are physically the sons of Abraham. All who believe and obey Christ have been adopted into the family. The Jews today will not be saved unless they do it through Christ. We need to bring the Jews forward to Christ and not go back with them and try to identify with OT ways. The land of Israel is unimportant. Physically being an Israelite is unimportant. What is important is Christ and all who believe in Him. Christ is for everyone and when you enter into His body you become one with Christ and nothing else (Gal 3:28).

This is a theological trainwreck. I don't even know where to begin...

Well......begin somewhere. How is anyone saved outside of Christ? The Jews will not be saved unless they accept Christ unless there is another gospel that Christ taught. Did Christ not command salvation through faith in Him? What did Paul say about salvation in Romans ch 4? I suggest you read the entire chapter. Christ brought all together in one body (Gal 3:26-29). What you physically are, where you physically live, etc. no longer matters. What does matter is your faith in Christ. That's all that matters and it makes us all heirs of Abraham.

UncleAbee, shiloh357, is not really into replacement theology

I don't know what replacement theology is. I do know that no one will be saved outside of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We must all believe in His death, burial, and resurrection. We must make Christ the Lord of our lives.

Usually when something is sleeping, I have learned it is not a good idea to poke it with a stick.....

I will leave it to shiloh357 to answer if you don't mind.

[nebula]

But, The OT is not for us to actually learn how to perform worship. That is what the NT is for. We learn about God's nature in the OT but we learn the tactics of worship in the NT.

I do not follow your train of thought. How do you learn how to perform worship without the Psalms?

What acts of worship are you getting from Psalms?

The Psalms are one big collection of worship. I am seriously not following your train of thought.

What particular acts of worship does Psalms define? I am not discussing your attitude or behavior in worship but particular acts of or what you actually perform as worship to God.

Ok, can you define worship then? I am as confused as Nebula as to your train of thought here...

Worship is "how you respond to God." It involves your attitude and what you physically perform. In John 4:23 Jesus says - "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers." Worship involves two elements. 1) Spirit. This is your spirit or your attitude. It must be from the heart. 2) Truth. It must be done the right way. It can't be unscriptural. You must do the right things. If we do the right things with the right attitude we achieve worship.My question is not on the spirit of worship but on the truth of worship. Where does Psalms give you this part? How do you know what acts of worship to perform?

1) The Psalms are beautiful expressions of the spirit of worship from the heart. Thankfulness, declaring faith amidst trials, glorifying the Lord, devotion, turning to the Lord for help, expressing one's feelings concerning one's trials without complaining but handing them over to the Lord, declaring who God is, etc.

I do not understand how you do not perceive this from the Psalms?

2) How are the Psalms not expressions of "the right things"? Surrender, devotion, seeking the Lord, purity, . . . all of these and more are expressed in the Psalms. They give us guidelines on how to pray, how to declare the glory of the Lord, how to seek His face, etc. through example. That as well as how to yield our bodies in worship through lifting hands, singing, shouting, meditating, clapping, playing instruments, etc.

Now, would you please explain how the New Testament teaches these things?

Or what "things" do you see as "the right things" taught in the New Testament?

[JCISGD]

The only replacement theology going on here, is trying to replace what Christ taught with that of Judaism. Its becoming clear to me that this is just another assult on the gospel and going back into the law with foolish arguements. Gal 3:1-3

"This cup is the NEW covenant in my blood, as often as you drink it, do this in rememberance of me" 1 Cor 11:25. Its that simple, the Spirit leads us into all truth. Jesus didnt set down rules for days and methods as He knew the "Comforter" would lead us.

How true it is that we get caught up on the details, straining at knats yet neglecting the weighter laws of justice and mercy.

[Fez]

The only replacement theology going on here, is trying to replace what Christ taught with that of Judaism. Its becoming clear to me that this is just another assult on the gospel and going back into the law with foolish arguements. Gal 3:1-3

"This cup is the NEW covenant in my blood, as often as you drink it, do this in rememberance of me" 1 Cor 11:25. Its that simple, the Spirit leads us into all truth. Jesus didnt set down rules for days and methods as He knew the "Comforter" would lead us.

How true it is that we get caught up on the details, straining at knats yet neglecting the weighter laws of justice and mercy.

There are people here who will disagree with you. But because it is a subject close to their hearts I will leave it to them to discuss it with you

But a simple question would be, for a start, is...

Are you saying that the Israel spoken about in the NT is the church, and not Israel itself?

[JCISGD]

The only replacement theology going on here, is trying to replace what Christ taught with that of Judaism. Its becoming clear to me that this is just another assult on the gospel and going back into the law with foolish arguements. Gal 3:1-3

"This cup is the NEW covenant in my blood, as often as you drink it, do this in rememberance of me" 1 Cor 11:25. Its that simple, the Spirit leads us into all truth. Jesus didnt set down rules for days and methods as He knew the "Comforter" would lead us.

How true it is that we get caught up on the details, straining at knats yet neglecting the weighter laws of justice and mercy.

There are people here who will disagree with you. But because it is a subject close to their hearts I will leave it to them to discuss it with you

But a simple question would be, for a start, is...

Are you saying that the Israel spoken about in the NT is the church, and not Israel itself?

What i will say is that Elijah and Enoch will return to Jerusalem and be put to death (probably seen on worldwide live telecast) after fearlessly preaching the gospel and after their bodies lie in the streets for 3 days they will be raised to life.

So while i do not think Israel is unimportant to us or indeed to God, i do not subscribe to christians converting to Judaism or having any advantage in those teachings unless they are living there and want "become all to all to win some"

[nebula]

No one is advocating salvation apart from Christ.

Unfortunately, Christians want to advocate Christianity apart from the Old Testament.