Communion - Bread and Wine

[UncleAbee]

The Lord's Supper was intended to be a simple ceremony with a deep meaning. Jesus instituted it. It involves 3 items. They are eating unleavened bread, drinking fruit of the vine, and meditating on what Christ did for us on the cross. It does have connections to Jewish ceremonies. Everything in the NT connects to the OT because the whole bible is all about Jesus. But, The OT is not for us to actually learn how to perform worship. That is what the NT is for. We learn about God's nature in the OT but we learn the tactics of worship in the NT. You can have a meal around communion but the meal is not communion. At some point you cease eating the meal and take communion. We make the Lord's Supper into a grand event but Jesus did things simply but powerfully.

[nebula]

I had thought more people would get in on the discussion/argument, but perhaps the boards are a bit slow at the moment, or it does not really provoke.

I'm listening intently. But I need something to say in order to say anything. Right now I can only say, "I agree," or "I disagree."

Like you, I lean one way, but am not fully convinced/certain. For truly, I don't know when "communion" started. Unless someone can find written document stating the Apostles passed around the wafers (or unleavened bread) and wine on a regular basis, I question its beginning with them. But I have not heard of a written account of when this practice actually started, so without that, who can say?

I know I've always assumed Paul was talking about communion when he mentioned "breaking the bread", but since I first heard the argument that "communion" was meant to stick with Passover, I began wondering if Paul was merely using an expression meaning eating and fellowshiping together (knowing how eating a meal with someone had a deep significance back then that it does not to us now).

But I am not in a position to state either.

So I sit back and listen.

[nebula]

OK, now this I have something to comment on.

But, The OT is not for us to actually learn how to perform worship. That is what the NT is for. We learn about God's nature in the OT but we learn the tactics of worship in the NT.

I do not follow your train of thought. How do you learn how to perform worship without the Psalms?

[traveller]

I had thought more people would get in on the discussion/argument, but perhaps the boards are a bit slow at the moment, or it does not really provoke.

I'm listening intently. But I need something to say in order to say anything. Right now I can only say, "I agree," or "I disagree."

Like you, I lean one way, but am not fully convinced/certain. For truly, I don't know when "communion" started. Unless someone can find written document stating the Apostles passed around the wafers (or unleavened bread) and wine on a regular basis, I question its beginning with them. But I have not heard of a written account of when this practice actually started, so without that, who can say?

I know I've always assumed Paul was talking about communion when he mentioned "breaking the bread", but since I first heard the argument that "communion" was meant to stick with Passover, I began wondering if Paul was merely using an expression meaning eating and fellowshiping together (knowing how eating a meal with someone had a deep significance back then that it does not to us now).

But I am not in a position to state either.

So I sit back and listen.

Ditto what Neb said. I'd be very interested to know the origins.

[mizzdy]

Nowadays, for the most part, I don't think there is anything of malicious intent in carrying on this tradition, and for the 'Gentile Church' to have a paradigm shift on this matter would take a deep work of Grace...but I believe it is a distinct possibility, if not a pressing necessity.....but I exercise a level of caution until fully convinced myself, and continue to weigh possibilities and to think and pray about it. I had thought more people would get in on the discussion/argument, but perhaps the boards are a bit slow at the moment, or it does not really provoke.

I don't think theres anything malicious in the intent at all its just my position that the communion is not what was intended and what we see today was probably changed over the years from the original meaning and day, that it was not meant to be done weekly. The friendship meal we see, which I think is what is meant by the breaking of bread we see in some scriptures I believe is not refering to communion. I would like to dig into this a bit busy this week but perhaps its mixed up, the meaning of day, when Ptolemy ll had the Torah translated for the Alexandria library, or later during the translation into Latin, something like that certainly could prove true I think.

Mizz

[Ovedya]

The Lord's Supper was intended to be a simple ceremony with a deep meaning. Jesus instituted it. It involves 3 items. They are eating unleavened bread, drinking fruit of the vine, and meditating on what Christ did for us on the cross.

How was it that they meditated upon the sacrifice of Christ when the sacrifice of Christ hadn't occurred yet? The "Last Supper" was partaken of by Christ, His disciples, and others, on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Passover. The Passover meal consisted mainly of unleavened bread, wine, and bitter herbs. That there was a lamb without spot or blemish among them was obvious. ;o)

[exrockstar]

Okay...I am NOT a new Christian...I'm a preachers kid brought up in a Brethren church and currently attend another non denominational church. In my life as Christian I have always been confused by communion. In the Brethren churches it is a very closed meeting that takes place before the 'family bible hour' meeting. In the 'closed' meeting they partake of bread and wine every Sunday, and that is when offering is taken as well. You must be baptised to take part in this meeting, and there is more...living your life to a certain standard before God. If you have been convicted of a sin such as molesting a child or something big like that you would be told that you cannot attend the closed communion meeting.

In the church I attend now, and in most churches today the communion is open to all and no questions are asked. But doesn't the Bible tell us somewhere that to do it this way can make the congregation sick? I have a huge hang up with communion and really search myslef well before partaking...and most times do not partake. Sometimes GOd slaps me upside the head and TELLS me to take of it, but most times I am just confused about wether I will be causing more harm thatn good by taking it (heart not in the right place, rough week, sins in the previous week (not big ones, but sins nonetheless) )

Anyway I know there are some wise people on here from many denominations...what is your take...when should, or shouldn't one partake in communion?

i believe communion is done in remembrence of Christ. Imagine the day of Christ returning...there more than likely wouldn't be any more communion after that day.

Luke 22:19

9 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.

[mizzdy]

The Lord's Supper was intended to be a simple ceremony with a deep meaning. Jesus instituted it. It involves 3 items. They are eating unleavened bread, drinking fruit of the vine, and meditating on what Christ did for us on the cross.

How was it that they meditated upon the sacrifice of Christ when the sacrifice of Christ hadn't occurred yet? The "Last Supper" was partaken of by Christ, His disciples, and others, on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the Passover. The Passover meal consisted mainly of unleavened bread, wine, and bitter herbs. That there was a lamb without spot or blemish among them was obvious. ;o)

During that time rabbinical Judaism was growing and many things were changing and one was that they were combining the

Passover and Unleavened Bread into one seven day feast. Its my opinion that Yeshua and the apostles kept the biblical law and had the Passover meal on the 14th instead of the 15th, something to do with they way the word day is used or misused not to clear in my memory right now. So the meal Yeshua said do this in remembrance was actual Passover and the remembrance was to be done just as the commands were given, with the exception of the actual sacrifice.

In Polycarps writings we find him going to Rome to hammer out the differences they happening between the way Yeshua did and they way Rome was going. In Eusebius Eccl History:

Traditional annual Passover continued to be practiced by the Christians in Asia for some time. However the rest of the world replaced Passover with Sunday communion crowned with Easter Sunday. The custom in the rest of the word was described by Ireaneus as a duty of

[anitarose]

The Lord's Supper was intended to be a simple ceremony with a deep meaning. Jesus instituted it. It involves 3 items. They are eating unleavened bread, drinking fruit of the vine, and meditating on what Christ did for us on the cross. It does have connections to Jewish ceremonies. Everything in the NT connects to the OT because the whole bible is all about Jesus. But, The OT is not for us to actually learn how to perform worship. That is what the NT is for. We learn about God's nature in the OT but we learn the tactics of worship in the NT. You can have a meal around communion but the meal is not communion. At some point you cease eating the meal and take communion. We make the Lord's Supper into a grand event but Jesus did things simply but powerfully.

If the OT isn't where we learn worship, then what do we do with The Song of Moses in Exodus, the Song of Deborah in Judges, the Praise of Hannah in 1 Samuel, the praise of the Israelites when Solomon built the Temple, the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon? Do we just throw those all out of the Scriptures? I'm sorry, I'm being facetious, but you just don't make a statement like that and expect me to sit back and ignore it....The whole Bible is one form of worship.....The Torah is teachings and instructions, and one of the BIGGEST instruction is how to worship and praise YHWH for everything!!!

a.

[Botz]

I had thought more people would get in on the discussion/argument, but perhaps the boards are a bit slow at the moment, or it does not really provoke.

I'm listening intently. But I need something to say in order to say anything. Right now I can only say, "I agree," or "I disagree."

Like you, I lean one way, but am not fully convinced/certain. For truly, I don't know when "communion" started. Unless someone can find written document stating the Apostles passed around the wafers (or unleavened bread) and wine on a regular basis, I question its beginning with them. But I have not heard of a written account of when this practice actually started, so without that, who can say?

I know I've always assumed Paul was talking about communion when he mentioned "breaking the bread", but since I first heard the argument that "communion" was meant to stick with Passover, I began wondering if Paul was merely using an expression meaning eating and fellowshiping together (knowing how eating a meal with someone had a deep significance back then that it does not to us now).

But I am not in a position to state either.

So I sit back and listen.

Ditto what Neb said. I'd be very interested to know the origins.

Understood sisters