Trinity

[lekh l'kha]

Before I also get accused of heresy, let me affirm that I believe that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. But I don't believe any extra-Biblical doctrine, not even the extra-Biblical doctreine of the Trinity. I believe only what the Bible says, and the Bible says,

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1Jn 5:7).

But NOWHERE does the Bible use the word "persons" (plural) to define God, NOR does it use the word "Trinity" anywhere. NOWHERE does the Bible say, "God in three persons (plural), Blessed Trinity". That's a man-made creed.

I believe what the Bible says, and the Bible states that we human beings are BODY, SOUL AND SPIRT, and CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD. I know that without my body, my spirit and soul cannot function as God intended it to.

I also know that my mind/soul is not my body, nor is my spirit, but each (my body, soul and spirit) is it's own expression of "me". One can just as well say, "And these three (body, soul and spirit) are one". But I am not three persons (plural), yet I am created in the image of God.

I simply believe what the Bible states, and NOWHERE in the Bible (from Genesis 1 onwards) is there any example of the Father, the Word (Son) and Holy Spirit not being present as ONE, wherever God acts or speaks. And NOWHERE does the Bible state that God is three persons (plural) in a "Trinity". "Hear, O Israel, the LORD your God, the LORD is ONE" (Hebrew: ECHAD, distinct from Hebrew YACHAD, which means "unity").

You CAN'T put me into any box of "unitarian" or whatever, because I believe the Bible, and the Bible says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1Jn 5:7).

But I reject the extra-Biblical use of the words "persons" (plural) and "Trinity", because the Bible does not use them.

In fact, I think the expression "God in three persons, Blessed Trinity" is just the flesh stupidly thinking it's able to define the One God who cannot be defined.

Why have a definition of God? Can the eternal One be defined?

Simply accept what THE BIBLE says. Don't add anything more.

[lekh l'kha]

Another thing is, when Philip said, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us" Jesus did NOT say, "Have WE been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known US, Philip?

He said, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known ME Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (Joh 14:8-9)

And the apostle John said,

"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." (1Jn 2:23).

"Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

(1Jn 2:24).

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." (1Ti 3:16).

The words of Jesus and the words of the apostle John kill the expression, "God in three persons (plural), Blessed Trinity".

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE (Greek: heis - one only)" (1Jn 5:7).

Hebrew echad = one only.

Hebrew yachad = unity.

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE (Hebrew: echad) LORD" (Deu 6:4)

"persons" (plural) and "Trinity" are non-Biblical words used in HUMAN attempt to define the eternal God, and the expression "God in three persons (plural), Blessed Trinity" conjures up images of three Gods in unity in human minds. It has caused untold damage to the gospel over the centuries.

Before I also get accused of heresy, let me affirm that I believe that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. But I don't believe any extra-Biblical doctrine, not even the extra-Biblical doctreine of the Trinity. I believe only what the Bible says, and the Bible says,

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1Jn 5:7).

But NOWHERE does the Bible use the word "persons" (plural) to define God, NOR does it use the word "Trinity" anywhere. NOWHERE does the Bible say, "God in three persons (plural), Blessed Trinity". That's a man-made creed.

I believe what the Bible says, and the Bible states that we human beings are BODY, SOUL AND SPIRT, and CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD. I know that without my body, my spirit and soul cannot function as God intended it to.

I also know that my mind/soul is not my body, nor is my spirit, but each (my body, soul and spirit) is it's own expression of "me". One can just as well say, "And these three (body, soul and spirit) are one". But I am not three persons (plural), yet I am created in the image of God.

I simply believe what the Bible states, and NOWHERE in the Bible (from Genesis 1 onwards) is there any example of the Father, the Word (Son) and Holy Spirit not being present as ONE, wherever God acts or speaks. And NOWHERE does the Bible state that God is three persons (plural) in a "Trinity". "Hear, O Israel, the LORD your God, the LORD is ONE" (Hebrew: ECHAD, distinct from Hebrew YACHAD, which means "unity").

You CAN'T put me into any box of "unitarian" or whatever, because I believe the Bible, and the Bible says, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1Jn 5:7).

But I reject the extra-Biblical use of the words "persons" (plural) and "Trinity", because the Bible does not use them.

In fact, I think the expression "God in three persons, Blessed Trinity" is just the flesh stupidly thinking it's able to define the One God who cannot be defined.

Why have a definition of God? Can the eternal One be defined?

Simply accept what THE BIBLE says. Don't add anything more.

[other one]

Before you all run this up to it's usual 50 pages before a mod see's it going no where and closes it, you might try and approach it by very carefully defining what you mean by GOD.

Many people discuss this subject with the defination of GOD being the Trinity. If a person who looks at the statement as just being the same as the Greek and Hebrew words meaning diety, then many people are discussing this from the same frame of mind of talking about oranges and apples as the same thing.

There are many dieties in the universe/s as our Bible tells us........ but for us, our one God is [Father, Son and Spirit] "IT" our God is one because though all three are Gods, without all three together none could be our God that we could approach. It takes all three to be our one God. All things came from the Father. Though Jesus was born a flesh man, his spirit had existed for ever with the Father and not a brand new one like we got when we were born, and it was in the form of God before he became flesh that Jesus actually built the universe. We are told that "all things" came from the Father through Jesus when he was "The Word"; and neither of them are reachagble without the Spirit that lives within each of us.

It's all three or nothing so to speak..... thus they are our one God.

[Guest djadzin]

Here is a document prepared by my pastor that may help you understand the Triune Man, and the Trinity of God the father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit.

http://www.gracebaptistroseville.com/index..._Man_edited.pdf

[EricH]

Besides the obvious fact that it is one of the main precepts of Christianity, what is the importance of believing in the Trinity? I've been thinking about this a lot lately and would like to hear your opinions.

Because it reflects the very nature of God. To deny the Trinity is to deny God's nature and say things about Him that are not true. The relationships in the trinity are also lifted up as a model for us

[Guest shiloh357]

...but personally what I find is that many people move away from biblical discourse, and attempt to defend 'THE TRINITY' as if man, even with the Scriptures open before him, can encapsulate the height and breadth and expanse of G-d.

That may be true in terms of how some people defend the trinity. They feel they can describe or define God and feel that any challenge to that view is an assault on God or their definition of Him.

For my part, though, I defend the doctrine of the Trinity in terms of what the Trinity is not. What I mean is that people who don't understand the doctrine, assume it is an attempt to divide God into three gods. So while I feel I can defend the reality of the Trinity, that really takes a backseat to having to stand for a correct framing of the doctrine.

No theological discourse on the Trinity can take place if the opposition to the doctrine can't or won't accurately frame precisely what the docrtrine is.

[MelodyCat]

General Comment to No One in Particular.

DT 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

We have a verse here that states God IS ONE, Not Three.

How can we Say God the Father and Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit are Three Separate Entities?

The Jews know this and recite often "The Lord our God is ONE".

So if anyone thinks God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are 3 Entities you haven't captured the importance of this scripture.

NO Teaching of the Trinity in the Bible? This is the VERSE that tells us all three must be the same GOD.

The only logical conclusion is that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the SAME GOD. Trinity.

Jesus tells us the same thing in the New Testament.

MK 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: `Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one

Even the Demons know this.

[1]JAS 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

I'm not fussed with getting into strict doctrines and theology when I can look at the Bible and see for myself what it has to say. This may seem super simple. I need to have things simple as I have so much going on in my brain I don't have much room for too much of anything these days.

This is how I see the Trinity from the Bible.

Edited December 22, 2009 by MelodyCat

[Botz]

...but personally what I find is that many people move away from biblical discourse, and attempt to defend 'THE TRINITY' as if man, even with the Scriptures open before him, can encapsulate the height and breadth and expanse of G-d.

That may be true in terms of how some people defend the trinity. They feel they can describe or define God and feel that any challenge to that view is an assault on God or their definition of Him.

For my part, though, I defend the doctrine of the Trinity in terms of what the Trinity is not. What I mean is that people who don't understand the doctrine, assume it is an attempt to divide God into three gods. So while I feel I can defend the reality of the Trinity, that really takes a backseat to having to stand for a correct framing of the doctrine.

No theological discourse on the Trinity can take place if the opposition to the doctrine can't or won't accurately frame precisely what the docrtrine is.

No argument from me here. I have had interesting talks with Orthodox Jews who, as you are probably aware, take great exception to what they believe is the Christian definition of G-d as seen in the doctrine of the Trinity, in particular from precisely the stand-point you have mentioned (eg misrepresentation), they are positive we have committed heresy/idolatry by defining the One true G-d as three separate gods, and in some areas of Israel they will seek to do you serious physical damage if you try to bring such an outlandish doctrine to their neighbourhood.

[Botz]

Here is a document prepared by my pastor that may help you understand the Triune Man, and the Trinity of God the father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit.

http://www.gracebaptistroseville.com/index..._Man_edited.pdf

Really excellent djadzin...I have read a large chunk, and will save it and read it fully and use it for reference....by the way welcome to these boards, and look forward to seeing you and fellowshipping with you here. Botz

[Botz]

The words of Jesus and the words of the apostle John kill the expression, "God in three persons (plural), Blessed Trinity".

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE (Greek: heis - one only)" (1Jn 5:7).

Hebrew echad = one only.

Hebrew yachad = unity.

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is ONE (Hebrew: echad) LORD" (Deu 6:4)

"persons" (plural) and "Trinity" are non-Biblical words used in HUMAN attempt to define the eternal God, and the expression "God in three persons (plural), Blessed Trinity" conjures up images of three Gods in unity in human minds. It has caused untold damage to the gospel over the centuries.

I like what you have written Lekh...I guess because it mostly reflects what I have always understood Scripture to stress, which is the Oneness of G-d....and by its very name, calling G-d 'The Trinity' has indeed been singularly unhelpful since it's inception; and however unintentional, this name has wrongly emphasized and promoted a misleading aspect of the nature of G-d, almost as if those that promulgated it took some vain delight in making such a controversial distinction....I can't help feeling that as it was ultimately formulated at the Council of Nicea, that Constantine used it to further separate Believers, and distance Messianic Jews.