How do we live by the Spirit?

[wyguy]

OneLight: Then your understanding of scripture is wrong.

It could only be that we are reading the same words from different levels of understanding. There are four levels of understanding to the bible, you know?

They are:

1. literal, simple - BREADTH

2. parable, allegory - LENGTH

3. seek, search - DEPTH

4. inner, mystical - HEIGHT

Only those with understandings below the level of #4 tell anyone that they are wrong in their understanding of scripture

Again, you know only what you want to understand. Is this one of the things Christ showed you in the three years He taught you privately, that you would not bring until someone addresses the subject?

I note the additional accusation and to answer your question: No, not exactly. I used to speak about the bible in wonder-ment concerning how there are so many levels of understandings to each verse... how more becomes apparent and the understandings can become deeper and deeper. One day a Jewish rabbi told me that the Jews teach that there are 4 levels of understanding to each verse of the bible. This is how I came to know of this 'thing'.

I would like to ask again:

You said: "Only those with understandings below the level of #4 tell anyone that they are wrong in their understanding of scripture."

But Jesus told people their understanding of Scripture was wrong a lot.

Several words in Acts and the Epistles address people with wrong understanding of Scripture.

Many cults have arisen throughout history that erred in the understanding of Scripture and needed to be rebuked.

So I am not understanding this statement of yours.

Very true. 2 Timothy 4:2 tells us to "preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage - with great patience and careful instruction."

And Titus 1:9 says: "He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it."

2 Timothy 3:16 says: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

And Titus 1:13: "This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith."

[Permie]

OneLight: Then your understanding of scripture is wrong.

It could only be that we are reading the same words from different levels of understanding. There are four levels of understanding to the bible, you know?

They are:

1. literal, simple - BREADTH

2. parable, allegory - LENGTH

3. seek, search - DEPTH

4. inner, mystical - HEIGHT

Only those with understandings below the level of #4 tell anyone that they are wrong in their understanding of scripture

Again, you know only what you want to understand. Is this one of the things Christ showed you in the three years He taught you privately, that you would not bring until someone addresses the subject?

I note the additional accusation and to answer your question: No, not exactly. I used to speak about the bible in wonder-ment concerning how there are so many levels of understandings to each verse... how more becomes apparent and the understandings can become deeper and deeper. One day a Jewish rabbi told me that the Jews teach that there are 4 levels of understanding to each verse of the bible. This is how I came to know of this 'thing'.

I would like to ask again:

You said: "Only those with understandings below the level of #4 tell anyone that they are wrong in their understanding of scripture."

But Jesus told people their understanding of Scripture was wrong a lot.

Several words in Acts and the Epistles address people with wrong understanding of Scripture.

Many cults have arisen throughout history that erred in the understanding of Scripture and needed to be rebuked.

So I am not understanding this statement of yours.

Hi Nebula,

Did I miss a prior post, or just something within your post that I've already responded too? My apologies if I have overlooked something. (Edit to add: I did go back over the thread and see now that I did indeed miss your previous post... my apologies.)

You are right. Jesus did tell people they were wrong a lot as did the Apostles. While I do not think I am above error, due to being in this fleshly tent, I have also observed that those with the greater understandings actually understand those who do not have the greater understanding.

I always check myself when not understanding someone. Either I don't understand their choice of words, or I may be dealing with someone who has had something revealed to them that I know nothing of. On the other hand, if I know that they are in error, I do not push them away, but instead speak of how my understanding differs through love and patience.

Through this process, I believe, truth can be known and much can be learned by both parties involved: Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17

The last thing any of us should do, imo, is to share in the spirit that is an accuser of the brethern.

Thank you so much for your writing in a larger font. Very considerate and thoughtful.

With the love of Christ,

Permie

Edited January 19, 2010 by Permie

[OneLight]

Shall we call on God and have Him judge between us?

He already is ... I have copied our conversation to go through it more thoroughly, since we are running out of quote allowances, and will reply later when time allows.

[nebula]

Did I miss a prior post, or just something within your post that I've already responded too? My apologies if I have overlooked something. (Edit to add: I did go back over the thread and see now that I did indeed miss your previous post... my apologies.)

Apology accepted.

Now concerning the issue addressed in this:

OneLight: Provide scripture that states that His Spirit dwells in the unbeliever.

1. Jeremiah 23:24

Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

According to the bible, we are each made of the earth. There is no where that God is not: If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Psalm 139:8

Maybe the reason you find this idea of God (Spirit) being in even non-believers wrong is because you restrict your thinking to those who have the spirit to those "who are reconciled back to God"? Yet, God says that He fills all the earth.

If the Lord dwells in everyone, how do you explain these verses?

John 14:17 -

the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Romans 8:9 - But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

2 Timothy 1:14 - That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

James 4:5 - Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?

The wording of these passages implies that there are those whom the Spirit does not dwell.

You ought to know that you cannot base a theology around one verse - you need all verses to work together in harmony.

The Spirit of God, in the OT, is not the same as the Holy Spirit spoken of in the NT.

There is only one Spirit.

I already provided the scripture that shows the Spirit returns to God that gave it.

You are building a theology around one verse.

How is this verse in unity with the rest of Scripture?

[Permie]

Hello, Nebula,

The Spirit of God, in the OT, is not the same as the Holy Spirit spoken of in the NT.

There is only one Spirit.

I do so agree with you.

However, the above statement that you have made response to was actually posted by OneLight and not me.

I do plan to address the rest of your post before long, but have some other activities to take care of right now and just wanted the above cleared up in the meantime.

With the love of Christ,

Permie

[OneLight]

Hello, Nebula,

The Spirit of God, in the OT, is not the same as the Holy Spirit spoken of in the NT.

There is only one Spirit.

I do so agree with you.

However, the above statement that you have made response to was actually posted by OneLight and not me.

I do plan to address the rest of your post before long, but have some other activities to take care of right now and just wanted the above cleared up in the meantime.

With the love of Christ,

Permie

Yes, it was posted by me and I have to admit that I did word this very badly. My thought was that the Holy Spirit did not enter believers before Christ as He does in the Church age. He did not remain as He does today. Otherwise, Jesus would not of said that if He did not return to the Farther, then He would not be able to send the Helper.

Please accept my apologies for such a terrible explanation of my thoughts.

[Seeker100]

I have not always been a Christian. When I was a non-Christian God was my joy. I knew very well what God wanted me to do and for the most part I obeyed because I loved God. Before I ever even knew that Christianity believes that Jesus is God, I walked in the Spirit. I felt the joy of God in my heart and I obeyed it.

You cannot feel God and walk in the spirit without believing first. The bolded doesn't even make sense.

I still walk in the Spirit as I did when I was a non-Christian however now it is so much better as I can serve Jesus in each person I meet.

Again, unbelievers cannot walk in the spirit.

When I was a non-Christian I believed in God and He was my joy. The old testimate is loaded with God telling the people of Israel to follow Him and cling to Him. I experienced God as they did. I did not know about Jesus being God I just felt God in my heart and that He is Love. He was my joy when I was a non-Christian walking in the Spirit and He is my joy now as a Christian walking in the Spirit.

Non-Christians can certainly follow God. Some people of the old testimate did. I did and many people of the Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, nothing or anything if they follow God serve love and walk in the Spirit. God makes Himself known to all men. God in us all is the common thing that all people have.

[Seeker100]

Edited January 20, 2010 by Seeker100

[Guest HIS girl]

Seeker,

a non Believer does not walk with the Holy Spirit -

Before I was saved in 2001, I believed in God, yet I didn't FOLLOW in His footsteps. I can see now in retrospect that before I was saved, God certainly had His eye on me because for certain, there were situations I was in that called for serious outcomes...but yet it didn't happen.

But in no way can I say that I had a relationship with Jesus and I definitely didn't "hear" or "know" the Holy Spirit's promptings and guidance until after my serious commitment and lifechanging salvation.

Of course before I was saved, I knew right from wrong and knew that I was doing something that I ought not to do - maybe this is where you feel that the Holy Spirit is with nonBelievers.

[OneLight]

I have not always been a Christian. When I was a non-Christian God was my joy. I knew very well what God wanted me to do and for the most part I obeyed because I loved God. Before I ever even knew that Christianity believes that Jesus is God, I walked in the Spirit. I felt the joy of God in my heart and I obeyed it.

You cannot feel God and walk in the spirit without believing first. The bolded doesn't even make sense.

I still walk in the Spirit as I did when I was a non-Christian however now it is so much better as I can serve Jesus in each person I meet.

Again, unbelievers cannot walk in the spirit.

When I was a non-Christian I believed in God and He was my joy. The old testimate is loaded with God telling the people of Israel to follow Him and cling to Him. I experienced God as they did. I did not know about Jesus being God I just felt God in my heart and that He is Love. He was my joy when I was a non-Christian walking in the Spirit and He is my joy now as a Christian walking in the Spirit.

Non-Christians can certainly follow God. Some people of the old testimate did. I did and many people of the Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, nothing or anything if they follow God serve love and walk in the Spirit. God makes Himself known to all men. God in us all is the common thing that all people have.

Your statement is confusing. Do you believe that Non-Christians can follow God well enough to be accepted into His Kingdom?