How do we live by the Spirit?

[Seeker100]

Your statement is confusing. Do you believe that Non-Christians can follow God well enough to be accepted into His Kingdom?

Of course. The Kingdom of God is for them! Jesus came for them! He came for people like those and I who truly love God. Non-Christians when they truly love God find they have a problem they can't do things to God in others. Thus, Jesus solves this as He is the light of the world so that one can make his or her deeds for God. As John 3:21 says, "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

Thus the Light is for non-Christians who practice the truth (follow the Spirit) so that by accepting Jesus they can serve Him in everyone they meet thus making their deeds being wrought in God.

Then your understanding of salvation is not scriptural. May I ask where your teachings are from? What church do you attend?

Presently I am a Quaker but I learned about being born again and serving Jesus in others from Catholics and the Holy Ghost Himself.

Thank you for replying. Some do not when asked. Can you supply scripture that specifically tells us that anyone who has rejected Christ has salvation?

In another post, you said: "This meeting and serving Jesus in everyone ...". Are you saying that Jesus is in everyone (unbeliever) or that we can serve everyone through Christ because He is in us?

A person who has rejected Christ does not have salvation. They may get it in the future if they repent but during the time of rejecting Christ they do not have salvation.

When I say that Jesus is in everyone, I am not saying that everyone has accepted Jesus or follows the Holly Spirit. When I say that Jesus is in everyone I am not talking about being born again. I am not saying that everyone is is following the Spirit. I am saying that to serve through Christ is to meet Jesus literally in everyone. I am saying that He is actually there as He is the love for the person. I am not saying that the person you are meeting is born again or following the Spirit. I am saying that the love for the person is there. In the physical world it is Jesus and we can walk in the light by doing things for Him in everyone we meet.

[OneLight]

Your statement is confusing. Do you believe that Non-Christians can follow God well enough to be accepted into His Kingdom?

Of course. The Kingdom of God is for them! Jesus came for them! He came for people like those and I who truly love God. Non-Christians when they truly love God find they have a problem they can't do things to God in others. Thus, Jesus solves this as He is the light of the world so that one can make his or her deeds for God. As John 3:21 says, "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

Thus the Light is for non-Christians who practice the truth (follow the Spirit) so that by accepting Jesus they can serve Him in everyone they meet thus making their deeds being wrought in God.

Then your understanding of salvation is not scriptural. May I ask where your teachings are from? What church do you attend?

Presently I am a Quaker but I learned about being born again and serving Jesus in others from Catholics and the Holy Ghost Himself.

Thank you for replying. Some do not when asked. Can you supply scripture that specifically tells us that anyone who has rejected Christ has salvation?

In another post, you said: "This meeting and serving Jesus in everyone ...". Are you saying that Jesus is in everyone (unbeliever) or that we can serve everyone through Christ because He is in us?

A person who has rejected Christ does not have salvation. They may get it in the future if they repent but during the time of rejecting Christ they do not have salvation.

When I say that Jesus is in everyone, I am not saying that everyone has accepted Jesus or follows the Holly Spirit. When I say that Jesus is in everyone I am not talking about being born again. I am not saying that everyone is is following the Spirit. I am saying that to serve through Christ is to meet Jesus literally in everyone. I am saying that He is actually there as He is the love for the person. I am not saying that the person you are meeting is born again or following the Spirit. I am saying that the love for the person is there. In the physical world it is Jesus and we can walk in the light by doing things for Him in everyone we meet.

I see serving through Christ differently. Because of the love Christ has given us, through Him we serve in His love. Christ is not the love in a person that is not His. His love is not in them until that are His. The world has love, but it is not the love from Christ, but the love from the flesh.

[Seeker100]

Edited January 20, 2010 by Seeker100

[OneLight]

I agree!

OK ... look at your post. in the beginningof the post you have "/quote" in brackets. Use just "quote" in the beginning and "/quote" at the end.

[Seeker100]

I agree!

OK ... look at your post. in the beginningof the post you have "/quote" in brackets. Use just "quote" in the beginning and "/quote" at the end.

Okay so thus as Christians we can do things to and for this love. We can do it by meeting and serving Jesus literally. Jesus is the love for others so we can meet Jesus in each person we meet. They may of course reject the love (Jesus) you give them but that is not our concern now. Our concern is serving Jesus in everyone we meet.

[Guest HIS girl]

'Seeker100'

Christ is God and God is unselfish love. If we love this love we want to do things to it and for it.

I appreciate what you are saying but please be careful not to associate "human" type love to God's love....they are light years in difference.

If you look at the OT - God wiped out peoples and in this, was part of God's "love" - It is bigger than what our minds can comprehend.

Our human concept of love is quite different to the concept of God's Love.

Is this Quaker doctrine that you have put forth or a mixture of that and the Catholic teachings you received?

[Permie]

Nebula,

Now concerning the issue addressed in this:

OneLight: Provide scripture that states that His Spirit dwells in the unbeliever.

1. Jeremiah 23:24

Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

According to the bible, we are each made of the earth. There is no where that God is not: If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Psalm 139:8

Maybe the reason you find this idea of God (Spirit) being in even non-believers wrong is because you restrict your thinking to those who have the spirit to those "who are reconciled back to God"? Yet, God says that He fills all the earth.

If the Lord dwells in everyone, how do you explain these verses?

John 14:17 -

the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Romans 8:9 - But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

1 Corinthians 3:16 - Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

2 Timothy 1:14 - That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

James 4:5 - Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?

The wording of these passages implies that there are those whom the Spirit does not dwell.

Yes, they do. You are right. I am not in disagreement.

Again, though, I think there are two different things being spoken about and yet they are trying to be combined which is causing confusion.

Those two things:

#1 The Spirit dwells in those who have accepted Christ, also described as walking in the Spirit and being reconciled back to God.

and then,

# 2. The Spirit animates all living beings and holds in existence all that we would call non-living.

A distinction is trying to be made here.

Do you accept what is said in Jeremiah 23:24? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

Do you accept what is said in Genesis 2:7? And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There is a difference between a living soul (and another concept: that of the soul that sins dies) and the quickening Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Without grasping that God indeed does fill all the earth, while maintaining also that that particular filling is different than the Spirit dwelling in us, then any further correspondence will continue to have us bumping foreheads.

If God should withdraw His presence, everything would cease to exist. For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Acts 17:28

You ought to know that you cannot base a theology around one verse - you need all verses to work together in harmony.

Yes, I agree. Harmony is a must.

I already provided the scripture that shows the Spirit returns to God that gave it.

You are building a theology around one verse.

While it can be disconcerting to have a comment pulled out of a conversation that was had with another, I am glad that you did. It gives me the opportunity to re-iterate and hopefully clarify.

It may appear to you that I am trying to build a theology around one verse, yet that is not the case at all.

When Onelight asked that I provide a scripture that showed that the Spirit was in all people... even while OneLight was concentrating on "only" the thought that the Spirit "dwells in" and is in only those who "walk in the Spirit", I also provided a scripture from Ecclesiastes 12:1 & 6-7. This was done also with the hope in mind that it would be seen that without the animating spark, the breath of God in a living soul, there would be no desire within us to seek for and know God. Maybe that was a mistake on my part and should have just instead offered Acts 17:28, which is posted above.

Also, these particular verses were chosen to show that it is when we are united with God (Spirit dwells in; walking in the Spirit; reconciled back to God) the Spirit that we, with our individual personalities, also return to God as our own soul and His Spirit have joined/united. This does not ocurr with those who are not reconciled back to God... who does not have the Spirit dwelling in them causing them to become the temple of God ... who does not walk in the Spirit of God... and all the other phrases that mean this same thing.

The "animating" Spirit for the soul of the unbeliever returns to God "without" that soul's personality. The Spirit within a person, any and every person, will return to God. The only question that remains is will that Spirit return with the person's individuality or will it return without anything of that person?

How is this verse in unity with the rest of Scripture?

You'll have to tell me how I am coming along in showing the unity.

This all began because Seeker said that he saw Jesus in all people, which allows him to love and serve all people. Even while I, as stated, would use different terminology, I do agree that God's spirit is in people... even while I would not say it is Jesus. For me that means the temple has been built within a person. All the same though, I do not wish to discourage and cause another to stumble if their understanding, in fact, does allow them to love and serve God by loving his neighbor as God requests and to be able to follow Jesus' new commandment: Love one another.

I do hope I have clarified this confusion somewhat.

[OneLight]

I agree!

OK ... look at your post. in the beginningof the post you have "/quote" in brackets. Use just "quote" in the beginning and "/quote" at the end.

Okay so thus as Christians we can do things to and for this love. We can do it by meeting and serving Jesus literally. Jesus is the love for others so we can meet Jesus in each person we meet. They may of course reject the love (Jesus) you give them but that is not our concern now. Our concern is serving Jesus in everyone we meet.

No, we do not meet Jesus in people who refuse Him. We have no need to meet Jesus, for He is with His own always. Did he not say I will never leave you nor forsake you? He was talking to Christians, not believers. We have to give Him permission to be in us. Those who have given Him this permission, do not have Christ.

When we serve others because of the love Christ placed in us, it is Christ whom we serve. As I asked earlier, can you provide scripture to back your statement?

[Seeker100]

I agree!

OK ... look at your post. in the beginningof the post you have "/quote" in brackets. Use just "quote" in the beginning and "/quote" at the end.

Okay so thus as Christians we can do things to and for this love. We can do it by meeting and serving Jesus literally. Jesus is the love for others so we can meet Jesus in each person we meet. They may of course reject the love (Jesus) you give them but that is not our concern now. Our concern is serving Jesus in everyone we meet.

No, we do not meet Jesus in people who refuse Him. We have no need to meet Jesus, for He is with His own always. Did he not say I will never leave you nor forsake you? He was talking to Christians, not believers. We have to give Him permission to be in us. Those who have given Him this permission, do not have Christ.

When we serve others because of the love Christ placed in us, it is Christ whom we serve. As I asked earlier, can you provide scripture to back your statement?

It is in scripture that I quoted of Matthew 25 33-46. You may not agree that this scripture says what I say it says.

I will tell you something though. Try a little test. Every person you meet in your life love them with all your heart (I don't mean romantically). Love them totally, nomatter if they are good, bad, stand for everything you detest etc., and see what you see. Truly do this and see what you see, experience what you experience.

[OneLight]

I agree!

OK ... look at your post. in the beginningof the post you have "/quote" in brackets. Use just "quote" in the beginning and "/quote" at the end.

Okay so thus as Christians we can do things to and for this love. We can do it by meeting and serving Jesus literally. Jesus is the love for others so we can meet Jesus in each person we meet. They may of course reject the love (Jesus) you give them but that is not our concern now. Our concern is serving Jesus in everyone we meet.

No, we do not meet Jesus in people who refuse Him. We have no need to meet Jesus, for He is with His own always. Did he not say I will never leave you nor forsake you? He was talking to Christians, not believers. We have to give Him permission to be in us. Those who have given Him this permission, do not have Christ.

When we serve others because of the love Christ placed in us, it is Christ whom we serve. As I asked earlier, can you provide scripture to back your statement?

It is in scripture that I quoted of Matthew 25 33-46. You may not agree that this scripture says what I say it says.

I will tell you something though. Try a little test. Every person you meet in your life love them with all your heart (I don't mean romantically). Love them totally, nomatter if they are good, bad, stand for everything you detest etc., and see what you see. Truly do this and see what you see, experience what you experience.

Matthew 25 tells us that Jesus separated the goats (nonbelievers) from the sheep (believers) from every nation. It does not say that unbelievers are entering His rest.

As for loving my neighbor as myself, I have been doing that for many years, to the best of my ability, for over 39 years.