Answers to celibacy advocates.

[JCISGD]

I do not agree with this list.

This list almost implies that celibacy is a sin or something.

Well, I don't believe celibacy is a sin.

It is a choice that everyone has the right to make, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Priests and nuns know beforehand that in order to be a priest or a nun they are "required" to be celibate.

It is their choice, and if they don't want to be celibate they shouldn't become a priest or a nun.

I agree with you the choice to live a celibate lifestyle is one that is given to individuals in the word to all that can receive it. And it is not a sin to those who choose this way of life dedicated to the work of the Lord.

Matthew 19:10-12

1 Corinthians 7:6-9; 28-35

Who decides your calling you or the Lord, remember the Lord has plans for our life even before we are born. As proved already being married is not a hinderance to a life dedicated to the Lords work. IF God has a spouse for us then it would be a sin to leave her husbandless or to tempt God by trying to be celibate when not gifted to be. Too many only think of themselves and what they can get from marriage.

[Miss Elly]

Miss Elly, i thought it good to post as even in my own circles it is thought by many that it is better not to marry, but Finney says thats incorrect interperetation and was only Pauls wish for that time as the Spirit forewarned that major persecution of the fledgling church was about to unfold.

I think Finney would disagree with that evangelist and does in his lists of reasons, namely that it is tormenting to single women and a strong temptation to single men. Is this man still standing ? Even if he is it is against the command to go forth and multiply which is only unapplicable in times of undue distress.

Well, Finney was a wonderful man, but scripture is not open to private interpretation. I believe it is between the man and God as to what he was called or not called to do, in the case of marriage or not. Also, I believe the earth has been replenished to the point to where it is vastly overpopulated and millions go hungry, so we don't need a tremendous amount of multiplying like in the days of Adam and Eve. I believe that the "enuchs" for the kingdom of heaven's sake are very few in number in comparison to the multitudes that are married. And it should be their choice, not the church forbidding them to marry (such as the catholic priests). There are temptations in being married too, though not necessarily the same ones. You will have trouble in the flesh, even with a christian mate, Paul the Apostle says. A true man of God can overcome the temptations of the flesh, Jesus Christ overcame it. They can acknowledge the natural longing God put in them as men and ask the Lord's help. It's not like the can't control themselves or will die if they don't have a woman on hand. As for single women being tormented, they can pray to God for a husband. I'm afraid I don't have a lot of sympathy for single women being tormented. They need to get their minds on something else and pray for a husband if that is their desire.

That said, I did enjoy the articles Finney wrote and much of it is really making a case for marriage. As for the evangelist, Paul Cain, I do know at one time he was as sincere as he could be in his ministry. Sad to say, in the much later years of his ministry (I looked it up on the web), he did fall into temptation and error. But a married man can fall into temptation as well as a single man. I pray he has repented. King David sinned too, and he was married, so that doesn't exempt anyone from temptation.

[~candice~]

I do not believe that all ministers are called to be celibate (husbands of one wife?) but the refutations that Finney supplied are just laughable. Man ought to obey the calling of God, not because of Finney's strange logic about the certain failure of man in the absence of sex, but because we now live for Christ and want to honour His will above our own.

[JCISGD]

I do not believe that all ministers are called to be celibate (husbands of one wife?) but the refutations that Finney supplied are just laughable. Man ought to obey the calling of God, not because of Finney's strange logic about the certain failure of man in the absence of sex, but because we now live for Christ and want to honour His will above our own.

Andy i think you are reading more into it than is actually stated. It does not mean certain failure, it means that history proves that many celibate are tempted untill faulting. Ask any candid man and he will tell you of the strange and intensified temptations that come when wanting to be celibate. Im sorry but you speak from a womans understanding and cannot know the mind of men.

Did not Paul advise marriage for temptation rather than resistance?

Please read prayerfully as much of what is listed is foreign to todays liberal thinking and the language is old. Its also only an outline and not to be taken as having proof provided.

What exactly do you find rediculous?, please quote it so that i can fairly answer you.

God bless.

[JCISGD]

Miss Elly, I agree it is between God and the man/woman and i may have overstepped the mark by suggesting Finney would outright disagree or that he would involve himself in the affairs of a man not in his parish. This was most unwise of me.

But you must see i was proved right to some degree as you state Paul Cain did fall and was perhaps pride that he spoke from and not wisdom. One of Finneys points is that Satan steps up the temptations and eventually wears down any man not gifted to be celibate and even in marriage Paul says not to deny one another for prolonged periods without agreement.

I hope all will read prayerfully as we are apt to kneejerk at anything now outdated and foriegn to us.

[~candice~]

I do not believe that all ministers are called to be celibate (husbands of one wife?) but the refutations that Finney supplied are just laughable. Man ought to obey the calling of God, not because of Finney's strange logic about the certain failure of man in the absence of sex, but because we now live for Christ and want to honour His will above our own.

Andy i think you are reading more into it than is actually stated. It does not mean certain failure, it means that history proves that many celibate are tempted untill faulting. Ask any candid man and he will tell you of the strange and intensified temptations that come when wanting to be celibate. Im sorry but you speak from a womans understanding and cannot know the mind of men.

Did not Paul advise marriage for temptation rather than resistance?

Please read prayerfully as much of what is listed is foreign to todays liberal thinking and the language is old. Its also only an outline and not to be taken as having proof provided.

What exactly do you find rediculous?, please quote it so that i can fairly answer you.

God bless.

I think you misunderstand me. I do think marriage helps to tame the temptation. I just think that Finney's reasoning is ridiculous at best.

Let's have a look at a few...

5. It is unjust to women.

How is it unjust?

8. It makes chaste women afraid of them.

Say what?

10. Makes them the terror of husbands.

My husband is not scared of a man because he doesn't have sex.

16. Makes them selfish and unsocial.

Are all celibate men selfish and unsocial?

19. It embarrasses them in their work in many ways.

21. It embarrasses their spiritual development.

Not having sex makes your spiritual development embarassed?

I could go on and on.

I see what Finney is TRYING to do, but he fails. He is attempting to assign reasons why God designed a man for a woman. He can't do that. Man is designed to have a wife, and marriage helps with temptation, but we can't say WHY God designed it like that, just that He has.

[JCISGD]

I think you misunderstand me. I do think marriage helps to tame the temptation. I just think that Finney's reasoning is ridiculous at best.

Let's have a look at a few...

5. It is unjust to women.

How is it unjust?

8. It makes chaste women afraid of them.

Say what?

10. Makes them the terror of husbands.

My husband is not scared of a man because he doesn't have sex.

16. Makes them selfish and unsocial.

Are all celibate men selfish and unsocial?

19. It embarrasses them in their work in many ways.

21. It embarrasses their spiritual development.

Not having sex makes your spiritual development embarassed?

I could go on and on.

I see what Finney is TRYING to do, but he fails. He is attempting to assign reasons why God designed a man for a woman. He can't do that. Man is designed to have a wife, and marriage helps with temptation, but we can't say WHY God designed it like that, just that He has.

I think i was misunderstanding you somewhat, and now find agreement with you mostly.

I have been a single man for 20 yrs since my failed and wrongful marriage of 5 yrs that resulted in two beautiful and now grown daughters.

I can vouchsafe the results of 5,8,10 +16 are a danger and i have observed them in many single christian men that i know, but the language is probably stronger and misunderstood in todays society.

I think the word embarrasses in 19+21 is used differently in 1870`s than today and would better translate as hinders.

I am sure Finney did not mean sex or the lack of it was the obstacle/improvement but rather Christian marriage with all its benefits was the help towards spiritual development. None of us develop in a vaacum and as iron sharpens iron God does use marriage to develop us and did design to do this when He created a helpmate for man.

Celibacy then is the exception and not the goal. My position on the exceptions are clarified in my reply to Parker above.

Its important to read the whole and keep in the context, i admit its not easy given the language and time difference but i considered it laborious and not expedient to warrant paraphrasing it.

If ive answered your objections to your satisfaction feel free to bring anymore, or refute what ive said if you still disagree.

[JCISGD]

deleted due to double post.

[JCISGD]

hi Andy, my bad i completly missed your questions underneath the quotes except for 19+21, i was lazy and lacked the dillgence you deserve not to mention my dog jumping on the keyboard and loosing one of my replies.

I will now try to give a satisfactory answer to 5,8,10 +16 but bear in mind i dont really have the right to reply for Finney.

5. It may be unjust to for men to be in ministry and put women in the position of being ministered by a man without his own wife, Paul did say each should have their own spouses. It may also be that it causes desires where they would not normally arise. Again i do not know Finneys mind or intention but these are plausible imo.

8. I dont think it means afraid as in in fear but in apprehensive or less able to trust ?

10. Again i think the word terror is old language and used differently, but i can say that all men feel the need to be on guard when single men come calling and are left in the company of their wives. Men today are boasting of not getting jealous but it is afool who does not guard their marriage man or woman and the facts attest to this.

16. I would say not all celibate men are unsocial or selfish but i can say this is the tendency of men left to themselves after the death of spouses or those that get too used to their own ways and my middle aged single friends admit this.

If this does not feel right to you i would ask you pray on it and ask candid Christian men.

[Openly Curious]

I do not agree with this list.

This list almost implies that celibacy is a sin or something.

Well, I don't believe celibacy is a sin.

It is a choice that everyone has the right to make, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Priests and nuns know beforehand that in order to be a priest or a nun they are "required" to be celibate.

It is their choice, and if they don't want to be celibate they shouldn't become a priest or a nun.

I agree with you the choice to live a celibate lifestyle is one that is given to individuals in the word to all that can receive it. And it is not a sin to those who choose this way of life dedicated to the work of the Lord.

Matthew 19:10-12

1 Corinthians 7:6-9; 28-35

Who decides your calling you or the Lord, remember the Lord has plans for our life even before we are born. As proved already being married is not a hinderance to a life dedicated to the Lords work. IF God has a spouse for us then it would be a sin to leave her husbandless or to tempt God by trying to be celibate when not gifted to be. Too many only think of themselves and what they can get from marriage.

Marriage is a choice if one decides they want to marry then by all means God will send a mate for us the story of Issac testifies to this fact. It is not a sin to remain single for that is your choice and you in no way are tempting God. Because if we choose that we want to be married then God will send us a mate. For it is the Lord who knows your hearts desire. We have choices in this life here in the subject it is a choice to remain single (celibate) or choose to be married neither choice is wrong. Those who choose to remain celibate have to receive the saying, read (Matthew 19:10-12) There are those who can constrain themselves and are gifted to be celibate. Then there are those who cannot constrain themselves who are not gifted. I was not sure of your thoughts that was behind your comment, (Too many only think of themselves and what they can get from marriage)

It is God who has chosen us and not we ourselves. It is my responsibility to answer the call upon my life as God leads me into that calling through his word. I have to weigh within my own heart as I have to take a step back and consider the cost lest I start out and not have enough to finish the race. I agree that even before we are in our mother's womb God knew and created us for his purpose for everything that has been created has been created for his purpose.

I have not seen where it has been proved already that being married is not a hinderance to a life dedicated to the work of the Lord. As the scriptures I gave in (1 Corinthians 7) it tells or gives the answer to why there is a difference to those who are single and those who are married. Just because there is a difference it in no way shape or form make the work of the married any less than those who remain single.

That difference is told to us in the word that those who choose to be celibate, serves in the work of the Lord without distractions.

On the otherhand those who are married seek to please one another a lot have children and have to be commited to provide and see that needs are met. Those who are married have to live with various distractions does in no way mean they can't be dedicated to the work of the Lord for Joshua said, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Every ounce of the work of God is not overlooked or compared to the labours of others. Again this is in the scripture

( 1 Corinthians 7)

Being single (celibate) is a choice and those who choose this path are not in sin.

Being married is also a choice and those who choose this path it is neither a sin.

There are problems in both "camps" as singles those who are celibate are found to fall into sins such as fornication and various other sexual sins. Then those who are married we hear of divorces at alarming numbers we also hear of adultery, fornication and sexual immorality