George Fox

[Believer1997]

Ive been down this road so many times and i know all the scriptures you will bring, but its going to end in stalemate of interpretation unless your willing to accept sound reasoning as well. We do not leave our reason at the door when interpreting the written language and the bible does not ask we do. In fact God Himself says "come let us reason together".

1 Jn 1:8 is only disputing anyone who claims to have never sinned apart from Jesus, and v10 goes on to challenge any who do.

I am a sound reasoner, I just don't like to deviate from what I believe are solid biblical doctrines . The bible is full of examples of people following Him, and yet sinning.

As for 1 Jn 1:18, you claim this is sinning "apart from Jesus", what do you mean by that? The passage doesn't say that. And yet, 1 Jn 2:1-2 is addressed to christians, and what happens WHEN we sin.

Yes, I agree Andy. I wouldn't look for a lot of sound debate here, ma'am.

[JCISGD]

It is you who set yourself above the glorious work God did through these sanctified vessels, and their lives attest to this.

who is this "you" whom you refer to? anyone who disagrees with you and seeker?

Know ye not that you search the scriptures to find life, but reject the life giver?

who is this life-giver you refer to? finney or fox?

The giver of life is Jesus (God)

i didn't ask you.

i'm asking who it is JC thinks we are rejecting as the life-giver.

because not ONE of us posting in this thread has rejected Jesus. we're rejecting the vain (and very flawed) teachings of man.

LadyC, i have not named anyone i only quoted scripture and the Holy Spirit speaks through His word, but i dont know anyones heart and if it doesnt apply to you dont make me out to be saying such.

Why would you think i was ascribing life to mortal men, Jesus Christ is the only God and life giver.

Have you read of Fox`s preaching and life, its astounding. I dont mean for us to become quakers or that everything on that website is correct. I still hold Finney up as America`s greatest revivalist, but Fox moved in some astounding power. Both believed and claimed entire sanctification, so theres a clue about the crux of their influence and witness.

[JCISGD]

Ive been down this road so many times and i know all the scriptures you will bring, but its going to end in stalemate of interpretation unless your willing to accept sound reasoning as well. We do not leave our reason at the door when interpreting the written language and the bible does not ask we do. In fact God Himself says "come let us reason together".

1 Jn 1:8 is only disputing anyone who claims to have never sinned apart from Jesus, and v10 goes on to challenge any who do.

I am a sound reasoner, I just don't like to deviate from what I believe are solid biblical doctrines . The bible is full of examples of people following Him, and yet sinning.

As for 1 Jn 1:18, you claim this is sinning "apart from Jesus", what do you mean by that? The passage doesn't say that. And yet, 1 Jn 2:1-2 is addressed to christians, and what happens WHEN we sin.

Sorry bad sentence structure, i meant Jesus was the only one who has never sinned.

The OT has some examples of this but Elijah, Elisha and Enoch have no record of sin, Elijah fled from Jezzebel and became depressed but that is not sin as i understand it. There is no account of any Apostle sinning after they recieved power from on high at Pentecost.

Andy is your life like the book of acts and are you moving in power as Jesus promised? Im not but ive always believed it to be possible if not the norm?

Have you read Fox`s journals ?

1 Jn 2:1 says "so we will not sin" and v2 is what we do if we sin. No one is saying that a Christian does not ever sin, but that does not mean the norm is sinning.

You have not responded to the many verses that prove we need not continue in sin.

[Seeker100]

It is you who set yourself above the glorious work God did through these sanctified vessels, and their lives attest to this.

who is this "you" whom you refer to? anyone who disagrees with you and seeker?

Know ye not that you search the scriptures to find life, but reject the life giver?

who is this life-giver you refer to? finney or fox?

The giver of life is Jesus (God)

i didn't ask you.

i'm asking who it is JC thinks we are rejecting as the life-giver.

because not ONE of us posting in this thread has rejected Jesus. we're rejecting the vain (and very flawed) teachings of man.

LadyC, i have not named anyone i only quoted scripture and the Holy Spirit speaks through His word, but i dont know anyones heart and if it doesnt apply to you dont make me out to be saying such.

Why would you think i was ascribing life to mortal men, Jesus Christ is the only God and life giver.

Have you read of Fox`s preaching and life, its astounding. I dont mean for us to become quakers or that everything on that website is correct. I still hold Finney up as America`s greatest revivalist, but Fox moved in some astounding power. Both believed and claimed entire sanctification, so theres a clue about the crux of their influence and witness.

The teachings and life of George Fox really moved me. That is why I became a Quaker. Jesus came to earth so that we could be vessels for Him. He can now work through us, His body. God living through us is real life and is God's gift. What a beautiful gift indeed. He who wants to drink, let him drink!!!

[JCISGD]

Im replying out of curteousy and at some point i will leave WF to go and obey the voice of the Lord wherever that may lead.

If you only allow that which you already believe, then I dont know how any light can get in if youve got the windows boarded up and all the doors locked.

I hope all here will go and read Fox`s journals for themselves, and not be put off by any errors that the George Fox site owner subscribes to.

[Believer1997]

Jesus moved me. It's why I became a Christian.

[~candice~]

Ive been down this road so many times and i know all the scriptures you will bring, but its going to end in stalemate of interpretation unless your willing to accept sound reasoning as well. We do not leave our reason at the door when interpreting the written language and the bible does not ask we do. In fact God Himself says "come let us reason together".

1 Jn 1:8 is only disputing anyone who claims to have never sinned apart from Jesus, and v10 goes on to challenge any who do.

I am a sound reasoner, I just don't like to deviate from what I believe are solid biblical doctrines . The bible is full of examples of people following Him, and yet sinning.

As for 1 Jn 1:18, you claim this is sinning "apart from Jesus", what do you mean by that? The passage doesn't say that. And yet, 1 Jn 2:1-2 is addressed to christians, and what happens WHEN we sin.

Sorry bad sentence structure, i meant Jesus was the only one who has never sinned.

The OT has some examples of this but Elijah, Elisha and Enoch have no record of sin, Elijahs fled from Jezzebel and became depressed but that is not sin as i understand it. There is no account of any Apostle sinning after they recieved poer from on high at Pentecost.

Andy is your life like the book of acts and are you moving in power as Jesus promised? Im not but ive always believed it to be possible if not the norm?

Have you read Fox`s journals ?

1 Jn 2:1 says "so we will not sin" and v2 is what we do if we sin. No one is saying that a Christian does not ever sin, but that does not mean the norm is sinning.

I agree, v2 is what we do if we sin. We plead to our Advocate. Doesn't this render the notion of sinless perfection redundant?

I am a bit confused now. Do you believe we must be sinless, in perfection, to be saved, or are you saying that a christian doesn't normally sin? I would disagree that there is no record of an apostle ever sinning, and even if that were true, it doesn't imply that we must be sinless for salvation. We cannot make an argument from silence. For this same reason, we can't conclude that Elijah et al are without sin either. Infact, Ro 3:23 states that they DID sin.

My life doesn't resemble the book of acts, no. But I do love, serve and follow God, or attempt to, and yes I do sin and often.

[Guest LadyC]

It is you who set yourself above the glorious work God did through these sanctified vessels, and their lives attest to this.

who is this "you" whom you refer to? anyone who disagrees with you and seeker?

Know ye not that you search the scriptures to find life, but reject the life giver?

who is this life-giver you refer to? finney or fox?

The giver of life is Jesus (God)

i didn't ask you.

i'm asking who it is JC thinks we are rejecting as the life-giver.

because not ONE of us posting in this thread has rejected Jesus. we're rejecting the vain (and very flawed) teachings of man.

LadyC, i have not named anyone i only quoted scripture and the Holy Spirit speaks through His word, but i dont know anyones heart and if it doesnt apply to you dont make me out to be saying such.

Why would you think i was ascribing life to mortal men, Jesus Christ is the only God and life giver.

Have you read of Fox`s preaching and life, its astounding. I dont mean for us to become quakers or that everything on that website is correct. I still hold Finney up as America`s greatest revivalist, but Fox moved in some astounding power. Both believed and claimed entire sanctification, so theres a clue about the crux of their influence and witness.

i was quoting your own words, jc. you said it. you made the accusation against someone (or multiple somebodies) that they are setting themselves above God's work through those whom you regard to be sanctified vessels, and you who accused someone or multiple somebodies of rejecting the life giver.

so i ask again, who are you accusing and who are you referring to as the life giver?

i wasn't "making you out to be saying such" of anything. i quoted your exact words. you were saying such. maybe you should take a look at your own posts.

[Seeker100]

Sorry bad sentence structure, i meant Jesus was the only one who has never sinned.

The OT has some examples of this but Elijah, Elisha and Enoch have no record of sin, Elijah fled from Jezzebel and became depressed but that is not sin as i understand it.

Was Elijah doing God's will when he fled and begged for death?

We have no record of Enoch doing anything other than having offspring, living in close fellowship with God and being taken to heaven

There is no account of any Apostle sinning after they recieved power from on high at Pentecost.

again, we have very litte accounts of them after that. And there are things one could debate if they were a sin or not.

Andy is your life like the book of acts and are you moving in power as Jesus promised? Im not but ive always believed it to be possible if not the norm?

I have to ask, why not? This is the thing that I dont get the most about this view, you say that we can be sinless, but you are not. You say we can be "like the book of Acts" and yet you are not?

1 Jn 2:1 says "so we will not sin" and v2 is what we do if we sin. No one is saying that a Christian does not ever sin, but that does not mean the norm is sinning.

You have not responded to the many verses that prove we need not continue in sin.

What about this passage?

Romans 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do

[Believer1997]

Christians, by the very nature of being human, do sin - they repent and are forgiven, but they are not sinless...

and... every person we meet does NOT have the love of Jesus in them.... it would be lovely if they did - but they don't. Your comments sound so very new-age and can you provide Scripture that says everyone has Jesus in them?