Let's Be Honest

[Guest shiloh357]

I wonder though, if you deliberately sin against God, having received Jesus, and yet doing wrong while knowing it.. do you still go to Heaven?

Salvation is not based on what you do. If salvation were based on our conduct, none of us have any hope. I would also add that ALL sin is deliberate. So any time you sin you do it on purpose. No one lies on accident. No one covets or lusts without knowing what they are doing.

[tah]

I wonder though, if you deliberately sin against God, having received Jesus, and yet doing wrong while knowing it.. do you still go to Heaven?

Salvation is not based on what you do. If salvation were based on our conduct, none of us have any hope. I would also add that ALL sin is deliberate. So any time you sin you do it on purpose. No one lies on accident. No one covets or lusts without knowing what they are doing.

I do not agree that we cannot sin without knowing it..

I believe we do and just as a child learns what is right and wrong we learn also...

He teaches us what is sin and what is not..

I cannot find the Scripture that is just in the back of my mind but when I do I will come back and post it..

Just a thought as I leave this thread for now.. why do you suppose He gave the 10 commandments.??

[MorningGlory]

Honestly, no...I won't steal. But I DO deliberately be mean and hateful to someone. I don't want to, I try not to but I simply can't make myself be nice to the person. I also sabotaged this person and made them have to totally rebuild the project they were working on; this in retaliation for earlier offensive behavior on their part. Is this a sin? I think it is but I am powerless to make myself stop. I want to be sorry but I'm not. I think this is a case of what you're talking about, Blien. I am a saved Christian who loves the Lord with all my heart and yet I'm still sinning.

[Fez]

I think we cannot sin without knowing it is sin. Often though we act before thinking, out of anger, frustration, greed, etc. And we only realize that we have after we have sinned. We know it's sin in the first place, but our emotions take over, and then comes (most times), the guilt and repentance.

The people I know who seem to have more control over this are the people who live under grace and the inner joy that knowing Jesus gives. I am willing to bet, you all know someone like that, who is just so good to be around, and you feel calm when being near them? Not that they don't sin, but often seem to sin less

[wyguy]

I wonder though, if you deliberately sin against God, having received Jesus, and yet doing wrong while knowing it.. do you still go to Heaven?

Salvation is not based on what you do. If salvation were based on our conduct, none of us have any hope. I would also add that ALL sin is deliberate. So any time you sin you do it on purpose. No one lies on accident. No one covets or lusts without knowing what they are doing.

I once accidently fell into a fresh pile of recently shoveled lust - does that count?

[MorningGlory]

I wonder though, if you deliberately sin against God, having received Jesus, and yet doing wrong while knowing it.. do you still go to Heaven?

Salvation is not based on what you do. If salvation were based on our conduct, none of us have any hope. I would also add that ALL sin is deliberate. So any time you sin you do it on purpose. No one lies on accident. No one covets or lusts without knowing what they are doing.

I once accidently fell into a fresh pile of recently shoveled lust - does that count?

[Botz]

I wonder though, if you deliberately sin against God, having received Jesus, and yet doing wrong while knowing it.. do you still go to Heaven?

Salvation is not based on what you do. If salvation were based on our conduct, none of us have any hope. I would also add that ALL sin is deliberate. So any time you sin you do it on purpose. No one lies on accident. No one covets or lusts without knowing what they are doing.

Yes bro, thankfully salvation rests on what has been done for us through Jesus...most religions try to tell you what you need to do so that you can achieve forgiveness....but the Bible shows us everything has been done, and a way has been provided and of ourselves we can do NOTHING.

I don't believe all sin is deliberate, in fact certain sacrifices were laid out to cover accidental iniquities, even for the priests.

Leviticus 4:1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2

[south]

I think Paul said it perfectly...

Romans 7:14-25 (New International Version)

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do

[humbleseeker]

It would be great if we could say that we give are lives to Christ and automaticly we are free from sin. Yes we are to become new creatures, are old selves are gone, and we are alive in Christ. These are good sermons to motivate us and they are true. Yet we still live in this flesh and we do so untill we leave this world. Christ died so that we may have eternal life. I accept his life I want to be free from sin, yet at times I sin. Its a battle, but a good battle.

[Blien]

So these are all good points you have all made... BUT... doesn't this scare you? It terrifies me, every time I fall to sin... knowingly.

Hebrews 10:19-39

A Call to Persevere

19 And so, dear brothers and sisters, we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus. 20 By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. 21 And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, 22 let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold tightly without wavering to the hope we affirm, for God can be trusted to keep his promise. 24 Let us think of ways to motivate one another to acts of love and good works. 25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.

26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. 27 There is only the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will consume his enemies. 28 For anyone who refused to obey the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God’s mercy to us. 30 For we know the one who said,

“I will take revenge.

I will pay them back.”

He also said,

“The Lord will judge his own people.”

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Think back on those early days when you first learned about Christ. Remember how you remained faithful even though it meant terrible suffering. 33 Sometimes you were exposed to public ridicule and were beaten, and sometimes you helped others who were suffering the same things. 34 You suffered along with those who were thrown into jail, and when all you owned was taken from you, you accepted it with joy. You knew there were better things waiting for you that will last forever.

35 So do not throw away this confident trust in the Lord. Remember the great reward it brings you! 36 Patient endurance is what you need now, so that you will continue to do God’s will. Then you will receive all that he has promised.

37 “For in just a little while,

the Coming One will come and not delay.

38 And my righteous ones will live by faith.

But I will take no pleasure in anyone who turns away.”

39 But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.

And

Philippians 3:12-25

Pressing on Toward the Goal

12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

15All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

17Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. 18For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things. 20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Just what kind of believers was Paul talking to?