Visits to hell and heaven versus Biblical doctrine

[fromIslam2Christ]

Lately at my church there has been lots of talks about books written by various people about the Lord Jesus taking them out of this world and taking them to visit hell or heaven. As some of you may know, Mary K. Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell and a A Divine revelation of Heaven are bestsellers (since the 1980s). The lady was taken by the Lord Jesus, according to her, over a period of 30 days to visit hell annd heaven. In her book, she gives detailed descriptions of these two places. She also quotes the Lord Jesus word by word.

The lady was invited last fall to speak at my church.

Another book that is mentioned regularly during Sunday sermons is Heaven is So Real (By Korean American writer Choo Thomas). She also said that the Lord Jesus took her to visit Heaven many times and she even saw her own mother burning in hell for never having heard of Jesus.

Finally, there are the experiences of a Korean pastor (Baptize by Blazing Fire 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5) about his daily trips to hell (from 2006 until today in 2010) and the visits to hell and heaven that members of his church experienced during a 30-day all night prayer vigil.

My question is, how do these revelations fit with Biblical doctrine?

Personally, I have been feeling uncomfortable with certain parts of their experiences. The Bible, the Word of God, should be final say on everything. Yet these experiences claim to "complete" in more details the "vague " descriptions of the Lord Jesus about hell and heaven (these are not my words, but that's what the leaders at my church explained kindly to me when I raised questions).

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

[Trusting Jesus]

These books can confuse anyone, especially someone who is new to Christ. If you church is focusing on these books more than the Bible, you need to speak with your pastor and ask him why. Christ needs to be the center of worship, and the Bible is the authority. I would suggest that you pray about this, then speak to your pastor and challenge him to study what the Bible has to say about these things. Then you study too. It may be that you need to find a new church. It is worrisome when any book other than the Bible is used as authority.

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a one was caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows--how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. 2 Corinthians 12:12-5

Most believe that Paul was talking about himself here. Notice the part I made bold. If it was not lawful for Paul to talk about what he saw then why would anyone? As far as people going to Hell, well that just can't be. Those who have not accepted Christ are still awaiting final judgment. They aren't really "in Hell" right now. They are in Hades. Read in Luke chapter 16 about the rich man and the beggar Lazarus. Lazarus died and was carried to Abraham's Bosom, but the rich man died and went to the torment side - Hades. These people are not in a pleasant place, but their judgment and real Hell is yet to come for them.

Take a look at the website http://www.gotquestions.org. They have quite a few very good answers on this subject.

<>< ><>

Nathele

[Akabu]

To go with what Agua said there also cannot be anybody "burning in hell" yet as nobody has been judged yet.

I do not know any of these people personally nor have I read thier books, but I do not feel inclined to believe them. They may have sincere motivations, and maybe they have had vivid re-occuring dreams, or they may just want to sell books. I really could not say which, but there is no Biblical support for thier claims.

Blessings~

[ayin jade]

I have looked into these books in the past and they are not scripturally sound. Mary Baxter for instance, on her website, claims that Jesus told her that she must promote what she saw in order for her to save folks from hell. That contradicts scripture.

These are books that appeal, but do not stand up to scrutiny.

[nebula]

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

I think right now the most important thing you can learn is how to listen to (hear and recognize) the voice of the Lord.

There will always be teachings and doctrines that will confuse you. Answers from others can sometimes confuse you even more.

Unfortunately, I'm still struggling myself with recognizing what thoughts, impressions, and images going through my head are the Lord.

But I would suggest for now start with setting aside some quiet time with the Lord. Pour out your heart to Him with regards to this. Imagine Him in the room with you and just talk. Ask Him for understanding and revelation with regards to these things, as you are doing with us. Then wait, believing He will answer.

I'm not sure how the Lord will answer, but it could be words, impressions or images in your mind. Just trust that the Lord will and is speaking to you. And it is Scriptural to "test the spirits to see if they are of God." (Asking for confirmation, challenging the "voice" speaking to you who Jesus is - an evil spirit will not acknowledge Jesus as Lord, for example.)

Praying you find peace in your heart with regards to this.

[Massorite]

Lately at my church there has been lots of talks about books written by various people about the Lord Jesus taking them out of this world and taking them to visit hell or heaven. As some of you may know, Mary K. Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell and a A Divine revelation of Heaven are bestsellers (since the 1980s). The lady was taken by the Lord Jesus, according to her, over a period of 30 days to visit hell annd heaven. In her book, she gives detailed descriptions of these two places. She also quotes the Lord Jesus word by word.

The lady was invited last fall to speak at my church.

Another book that is mentioned regularly during Sunday sermons is Heaven is So Real (By Korean American writer Choo Thomas). She also said that the Lord Jesus took her to visit Heaven many times and she even saw her own mother burning in hell for never having heard of Jesus.

Finally, there are the experiences of a Korean pastor (Baptize by Blazing Fire 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5) about his daily trips to hell (from 2006 until today in 2010) and the visits to hell and heaven that members of his church experienced during a 30-day all night prayer vigil.

My question is, how do these revelations fit with Biblical doctrine?

Personally, I have been feeling uncomfortable with certain parts of their experiences. The Bible, the Word of God, should be final say on everything. Yet these experiences claim to "complete" in more details the "vague " descriptions of the Lord Jesus about hell and heaven (these are not my words, but that's what the leaders at my church explained kindly to me when I raised questions).

Now these stories are mentioned more often than Biblical descriptions at the church. Also, a lot of the preaching focuses on how we can lose our salvation based on what these books say. Example: in Baptize by Blazing Fire, the pastor said he saw many Christians burning in hell for one important sin: spending and selling on Sundays (not keeping the sabbath). Not tithing regularly was also one action that sends lots of Christians to hell.

Please, I am a new Christian, but would love to hear from other Christians about this.

God bless and protect you all.

First of all there are no examples in the bible of any kind of trips to heaven or hell except for maybe Paul and all he said was that he had been there. And to say that Christians are suffering in hell because they didn't keep the sabbath is just the same kind of beliefs that Jesus spoke against in his gospel. (Matthew 12:11) If someone wants to do work on the Sabbath then that should be between them and God. It is possible that God could show someone heaven or hell but I have a real problem with what you are telling us in your post. It actually sounds like mass hysteria within your church and I think it is a dangerous thing that is happening there. Judgment is reserved for God only and I find it hard to believe that God has revealed to someone that their mother is roasting in hell for any reason.

As you have already said "The bible is the end to all things" and as I have said many times "If it is not in the bible it is not". It is the only safe way to go but that doesn't mean that we should condemn all that is not already written in that bible. It does mean that we should stay clear of such things until we have had some confirmation from God on a personal level that such things are good in his eyes.

I have come a long ways in my research since the last time I talked with you and I am now reading the Quran for the second time. Really all that we need to know about hell is that it will be a place of great suffering. I know that the Quran speaks of people being made to drink molten lava or their bodies bring on fire and and several other vivid descriptions of what it will be like in hell but all of that really doesn't matter to us because we know that we will not be going there and the bible speaks a lot less of what will happen in hell then the Quran does. The Parable of Lazarus and the rich man is as close as the bible comes to describing what will happen in hell to any who go there.

I have seen the sort of thing as your describing happen before only it was involuntary movements of the body do to the Holy Spirit. A group of teens went to a week long gathering and when they came back they were doing all these different kinds of jerking movements and when I asked one why they were doing such things and they couldn't tell me so I said to them. Well if you don't know why you are doing this then stop doing it. There must have been a couple hundred teen that got caught up in this stuff. The church was patient and the jerking finally was stopped but it freaked everybody out when they came back at first. Personally I recognized it right away as being something that was not of God.

If God ever takes you to hell to show you what hell looks like then you will have confirmation but otherwise I think you should stay clear of this thing.

[Blien]

I do believe that Jesus can and will take people on a tour of heaven and hell. The Apostle Paul was taken up to heaven so that does not restrict us from going either. If the Lord wants to take us for some purpose He will.

But like others, I just suggest that this not be focus right now because you are a new believer and so a foundation in the Bible needs to be built. Otherwise people will confuse you with their comments, theories or ideas. Which would be very dangerous for you because the Enemy can use that to his advantage.

I never went to Heaven but I'll tell you two dreams I had and one vision. Once I had a dream that I was in Heaven and I saw the streets and buildings. They were just as described in the Bible, but I saw these walls and everything there just seemed to shimmer in brilliant light. I dont know how to describe it, it was just beautiful. And completely joyful atmosphere! I think I saw this because I prayed to God to show me what Heaven looks like. Give it a try.

Another time, during a difficult time in my life, I dreamt that I was looking through the eyes of an angel. And they were looking at me from high up.. I saw demons attacking me, and these flashes of red would enter my body and disappear. What I was seeing was not the physical but the spiritual. Then the scene changed and I in my body looked up, and I saw a tear in the atmosphere. It was a perfect circle, very small, and there was the angel who was looking at me and another one next to him. I could sense that they were extremely curious about what was happening to me. It didn't seem to make any sense to them.

Another time, an open vision. I just woke up and I saw a white window right above me. And as I looked at it, it would move, and if I turned my head it would move again. It was very intelligent. Was this the window of Heaven, that is talked about in Malachi? No idea, but it was closed, not open. Shortly after it disappeared.

[OneLight]

I believe in these last days we will have dreams and visions, but to physically taken there ... no.

AS with a lot of what has been going on in the past 100 years, Christianity has become a business and this fits into this very well. People will always buy books about what they don't know but would love to know about. I have also watched tv preachers that have promoted such stuff and I do not trust one of them.

As has been said, know scripture and leave all this extra biblical stuff alone. It will only trip you up, sending you down paths that are not of God.

[humbleseeker]

I have been skeptikal about claims, I enjoyed reading Baxters divine revelation of hell, but when it became a serious of books, those darn dollors can be very decieving.

[fromIslam2Christ]

I praise the Lord.

because your answers have confirmed to me that I am not the one with the issue here.

I was feeling like an oddity at my church because everyone is always talking about this and the sermons about these books captivate people. They are even now all praying to receive the Prophetic Dance that Choo Thomas was taught by Jesus in heaven. That dance is supposed to diffuse God's power around, act as spiritual warfare and as healing to people who are around.

I have been skeptical about it, but was feeling guilty as well for questioning these books.

I don,t doubt that the Lord would give visions to whom He wills. I have no problem with that. But I don't know if the LORD JESUS would do the following: force you as a Christian to watch as your loved ones are burning, return to the pit of darkness night after night even though you beg Him not to take you there any more, make you burn every day for 4 years in the flames of hell so that you can tell people what it feels like... The Lord Jesus said that He gave us His peace, and He doesnt give it to us the way the world does. Also I remember a passage in the Epistle of 1 John that says something like: Perfect love casts out fear.

What makes me uncomfortable is the climate of fear that is now being promoted at church based on those books. Everyone at church is unsure of their salvation and is performing all these fasts and recently we had a 30-night prayer vigil which ended last week. I could hear church members saying they are hoping their sins will be forgiven because they haven't slept for those 30 days...

I have asked questions to the Prophet and his wife already and if I continue they may accuse me of having a spirit of rebellion or something. I told them I feel the Bible is the final and complete authority for me.

Thanks for your answers and God bless you all.