Perception...What's True?

[Guest]

.... I hate that I hurt someone. I never intended to but I did. You just don't mess with God's word. So now I'm here questioning EVERYTHING I've ever believed was true. I've got to start all over again (regretting everything I've ever taught anyone!), but I can't go to college and learn all that stuff. I simply don't want to open my mouth again! How am I ever to know when I am really standing on truth? How am I to have any confidence in anything I interpret if I can proven so very wrong after 13 years! How does anyone have any confidence at all with something as precious as God's word?....

Have

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. Psalms 139:23-24

A Little

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:1-3

Faith

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

In Him

Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips. Psalms 141:3

He

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isaiah 28:11

Knows

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:26-28

And Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. Isaiah 6:5-8

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Botz]

I got it wrong! Why would the Holy Spirit let me spread such a lie?

So, with me being wrong, and ordained, college trained ministers being wrong, and the Holy Spirit being the interpreter and He's NEVER WRONG-how do I know when I am really speaking truth if I truly believed I was? I had no idea I could even be wrong because I believed firmly that the Holy Spirit interpreted that verse for me.

Am I the only person who worries about preaching or teaching the wrong thing to people? God makes it very clear how He feels about false teachers!

Hi Stormy...it seems like there are a nuumber of issues at stake with you here.

You worry you have taught others wrongly.

You worry others still teach others wrongly.

You worry why the Holy Spirit didn't step in and say 'Whoa boy, big mistake!'.

You've been a Believer for some years, and presumably you've developed your 'spiritual muscles' and enlarged your fellowship with the L-rd...then you must realise that sometimes we get things wrong (I'm not even going to worry about the translation of the passage you mention...just the obvious confusion/heartache it has caused to surface)...and yes with every best intention, even when we believe we are guided by the Holy Spirit...we can still get things wrong...because although He is perfect, we are not, and with the best will in the world, we sometimes attribute things to G-d at work in us, when in actual fact they are a red herring, or just unwitting presumption on our part.

It can be frustrating, and humbling....and from your point of view, I see it gives you a degree of unease and uncertainty on other things in your Christian walk.

We are instructed to test all things, and to hold fast to what is true....people being people, and most of us being like the rest of us, we have a tendency at times to hold-fast to some things that we think are true...but they ain't, or they aren't entirely true...but we tend to build them up, and our pride gets hurt when they become an issue.

As you can see from some of the friendly responses, many people can identify with your consternation, and sometimes we need to just give ourselves time to re-focus and re-adjust...the Bible says:- Romans 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Sometimes we don't get immediate answers or revelation on things that we take to the L-rd...but we need to trust Him and exercise a degree of patience, while we actively seek answers. We are also placed in a body, and can chew things over with our brethren...which is precisely what you are doing. Try exchanging worry with trust...we aren't always right..He always is.

Peace. Botz

[stormy612]

Hi,

According to Matthew Henry's commentary:

The parables of the mustard-seed and the leaven.

The scope of the parable of the seed sown, is to show that the beginnings of the gospel would be small, but its latter end would greatly increase; in this way the work of grace in the heart, the kingdom of God within us, would be carried on. In the soul where grace truly is, it will grow really; though perhaps at first not to be discerned, it will at last come to great strength and usefulness. The preaching of the gospel works like leaven in the hearts of those who receive it. The

leaven works certainly, so does the word, yet gradually. It works silently, and without being seen, Mr 4:26 to 29, yet strongly; without noise, for so is the way of the Spirit, but without fail. Thus it was in the world. The apostles, by preaching the gospel, hid a handful of leaven in the great mass of mankind. It was made powerful by the Spirit of the Lord of hosts, who works, and none can hinder. Thus it is in the heart. When the gospel comes into the

soul, it works a thorough change; it spreads itself into all the powers and faculties of the soul, and alters the property even of the members of the body, Ro 6:13. From these parables we are taught to expect a gradual progress; therefore let us inquire, Are we growing in grace? and in holy principles and habits? (Mt 13:44-52)

I don't see any indication that the birds are evil...

birds: 4071

peteinovn Peteinon (pet-i-non');

Word Origin: Greek, Noun Neuter, Strong #: 4071

flying, winged

flying or winged animals, birds

the birds of the heaven, i.e. flying in the heaven (air)

KJV Word Usage and Count

fowl 9

bird 5

Hope this helps,

Joe

Thank you. This does help a lot. It actually confirms (although much better said) what Jesus was teaching me when I first read this verse. And you are the second person to give me the original word used in the verse. Thank you so much! For me and everyone else who is reading this post!

[stormy612]

I got it wrong! Why would the Holy Spirit let me spread such a lie?

So, with me being wrong, and ordained, college trained ministers being wrong, and the Holy Spirit being the interpreter and He's NEVER WRONG-how do I know when I am really speaking truth if I truly believed I was? I had no idea I could even be wrong because I believed firmly that the Holy Spirit interpreted that verse for me.

Am I the only person who worries about preaching or teaching the wrong thing to people? God makes it very clear how He feels about false teachers!

Hi Stormy...it seems like there are a nuumber of issues at stake with you here.

You worry you have taught others wrongly.

You worry others still teach others wrongly.

You worry why the Holy Spirit didn't step in and say 'Whoa boy, big mistake!'.

You've been a Believer for some years, and presumably you've developed your 'spiritual muscles' and enlarged your fellowship with the L-rd...then you must realise that sometimes we get things wrong (I'm not even going to worry about the translation of the passage you mention...just the obvious confusion/heartache it has caused to surface)...and yes with every best intention, even when we believe we are guided by the Holy Spirit...we can still get things wrong...because although He is perfect, we are not, and with the best will in the world, we sometimes attribute things to G-d at work in us, when in actual fact they are a red herring, or just unwitting presumption on our part.

It can be frustrating, and humbling....and from your point of view, I see it gives you a degree of unease and uncertainty on other things in your Christian walk.

We are instructed to test all things, and to hold fast to what is true....people being people, and most of us being like the rest of us, we have a tendency at times to hold-fast to some things that we think are true...but they ain't, or they aren't entirely true...but we tend to build them up, and our pride gets hurt when they become an issue.

As you can see from some of the friendly responses, many people can identify with your consternation, and sometimes we need to just give ourselves time to re-focus and re-adjust...the Bible says:- Romans 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Sometimes we don't get immediate answers or revelation on things that we take to the L-rd...but we need to trust Him and exercise a degree of patience, while we actively seek answers. We are also placed in a body, and can chew things over with our brethren...which is precisely what you are doing. Try exchanging worry with trust...we aren't always right..He always is.

Peace. Botz

Hi Botz, Yep. I've walked with Jesus long enough and my faith is strong enough to handle blows of this sort (although I do tend to get a 'tad' dramatic ). I know when things like this happen, it's time to shush, take some time off, and just listen for God (I can talk up a storm! ). I've been waiting for Him to tell me why, if I got the meaning wrong, He'd let me run around with it, and during my bible study with Him for the last couple of days, and last night especially, one word kept coming up (flashing neon!): "simple."

This morning, when I returned to my posts, I've found two people who know the original word Jesus used and it's meaning, and it turns out that the Holy Spirit did not mislead me or let me run around talking nonsense. God used this moment to 'trip my intellect' or wake me up to something far more important. I am simple, which means, I am easily influenced, and God is calling me to task about it.

God is sending me in a new direction now, and I just can't remain as I've been. It's time for me to learn some new things and go deeper with him. Before I can do that, He has to show me what I need to let go of as well as what parts of my 'worldly mind' I still need to renew. Whatever is coming requires that I stop being 'simple.'

Trust is a pretty touchy issue with me. People (me included) are inconsistent so it seems inevitable that my trust will be shattered at some point (intentionally or not). Why then trust people at all? Jesus did not trust mankind because He knew what was in our hearts. My heart even deceives me. I know I can place all of my confidence in God; its how I interact with people that is my concern. Everyone can be used by God and they don't need me reminding them how imperfect we all are. I don't really know how to give just a little trust-it's all or nothing with me, it seems.

Thanks. Your resposne has given me some things to think about and "chew over". I am really glad you and all the rest of Worthy are here.

[exrockstar]

The word for "birds"-meaning demons-isn't open to intepretation or experience or growth. This is a fact.

Where is that etched in stone?

Matthew 13

31 Another parable He put forth to them, saying:

[stormy612]

.... I hate that I hurt someone. I never intended to but I did. You just don't mess with God's word. So now I'm here questioning EVERYTHING I've ever believed was true. I've got to start all over again (regretting everything I've ever taught anyone!), but I can't go to college and learn all that stuff. I simply don't want to open my mouth again! How am I ever to know when I am really standing on truth? How am I to have any confidence in anything I interpret if I can proven so very wrong after 13 years! How does anyone have any confidence at all with something as precious as God's word?....

Have

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. Psalms 139:23-24

A Little

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Psalms 23:1-3

Faith

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust

Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. Psalms 119:11

In Him

Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips. Psalms 141:3

He

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isaiah 28:11

Knows

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:26-28

And Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. Isaiah 6:5-8

Love, Your Brother Joe

Thank you...you really do remind me of the sweetest and most gentle parts of Jesus...the parts of Him that I fell in love with...

[other one]

Stormy, you can download "E-Sword from the net for free. It's a Bible program with the Greek and Hebrew words that it is translated from. You can look up the meanings of these words for yourself and save a lot of time and effort...... not to even mention stress.

http://www.e-sword.net/

[Guest man]

The word for "birds"-meaning demons-isn't open to intepretation or experience or growth. This is a fact.

Where is that etched in stone?

Matthew 13

31 Another parable He put forth to them, saying:

[e lansing]

Am I the only Christian who wonders where to stand to get the most accurate picture of truth?

Earlier today I was listening to a podcast of a local church. The minister quoted Matthew 13:31,32- "Another parable put He forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field. Which indeed is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof." KJV

His interpretation started out like Jesus', but he went on to say that once the seed becomes the great tree, it attracts the demons which are the birds referred to in the verse.

I was shocked. My interpretation of this verses was so far from his, I honestly thought this guy was nuts.

This was MY interpretation: We are all given a small seed of faith, which will grow into something so great that the tree becomes a source of comfort (shade for the birds, nesting site for the birds). The birds in my interpretation were people. I lived by this interpretation believing that one day I would grow into someone that would provide such comfort. I was happy knowing that God would use my like that one day.

So here today, some thirteen years later, I discover (through the interpretation of the KJV Study Bible) that this minister was correct. I'm pretty certain the word used, either Greek, Latin or Aramaic, means demons or something like that, so I'm wrong and have believed something wrong all these years. It is very likely that I even taught my interpretation to someone else, which means that someone out there, thanks to me, now has the wrong interpretation of something Jesus said. When I say my interpretation, I mean, it is what popped into my head the first time I read it and everytime there since. I just assumed the Holy Spirit was interpreting the verse for me.

I got it wrong! Why would the Holy Spirit let me spread such a lie? And since I now know I got that one wrong, I am VERY certain I've gotten everything else wrong. For thirteen years I've been telling people the wrong thing! God doesn't look kindly on that. But there are also false preachers- people who've gone to bible college and have become ordained and know the language and the words used. How do they get it wrong? Preachers, after all, disagree with each other a lot, hence the multitude of denominations.

So, with me being wrong, and ordained, college trained ministers being wrong, and the Holy Spirit being the interpreter and He's NEVER WRONG-how do I know when I am really speaking truth if I truly believed I was? I had no idea I could even be wrong because I believed firmly that the Holy Spirit interpreted that verse for me.

I hate that I hurt someone. I never intended to but I did. You just don't mess with God's word. So now I'm here questioning EVERYTHING I've ever believed was true. I've got to start all over again (regreting everything I've ever taught anyone!), but I can't go to college and learn all that stuff. I simply don't want to open my mouth again! How am I ever to know when I am really standing on truth? How am I to have any confidence in anything I interpret if I can proven so very wrong after 13 years! How does anyone have any confidence at all with something as precious as God's word?

I think that you are in a great place to learn! When we think we know all that there is to know about anything, we stop growing. What has happen to you, happen to me. However, I did not give up, I just reloaded. I have learned to read scripture and let scripture interpit itself. Using a concordance, and commetary has also helped in my reloading. As a result I have learned that there is no perfect church because there is no perfect people. The Bible teaches that we "know in part", Its not a blind guess, but what we do understand is who Jesus is, His mission, our mission as christians, these we know. The rest are small potatoes. Gods grace is enough to help make up for our mistakes! Continue to grow, never take mans word as total truth, always trust Gods word above all and never stop learning!

e

[stormy612]

Stormy, you can download "E-Sword from the net for free. It's a Bible program with the Greek and Hebrew words that it is translated from. You can look up the meanings of these words for yourself and save a lot of time and effort...... not to even mention stress.

http://www.e-sword.net/

Thank you so much! I'll check it out. I've never heard of this before. I was going to head to my library later today. I probably still will, but I'll check here first. Thanks again!