Sabbath or Sunday ?

[JCISGD]

Yod, i honestly think it is you who are wrong about the sabbath, and your claim to prove it by scripture is really just your take.

:::sigh::::

OK....let's do this and find out. I'll quote how many times the Lord says to keep the Sabbath and you quote how many times He says that it changed to Sunday.

I'm ready when you can find ONE place. The challenge is for you to prove the false accusation you just made against me when saying it is "just my take"

Either find ONE place where it is written in the scriptures or apologize for being wrong and then making a false accusation against a brother.

Is God using you in revival and conversions of thousands of souls?

Yes, but that is a carnal human comparison and it's not mine to claim anyway.

if you were to read of Finney you would see no such carnality.

It's easy to do (and typical) when writing a biography.

The bible doesn't put rose colored lenses on it's heroes. Even Moses had weakness and failings.

I can imagine how frustrating it must be for you, but i could say the same.

Sorry but im not accusing you Yod, and i am obligated to say i think your wrong if i do. Anything else is dishonest.

I dont disagree that we are to keep the Sabbath, but as i have previously argued the spirit of the Sabbath means "a seventh part" and this is proven by other sevenths being keep as holy sabbaths in the bible.

If Finney had converted half the world but not shown purity, or had taught anything unsustained by scripture i would reject him as a man of God. But this is not what i have found.

But apart from your posts here i know little of you or your fruits. Care to show me how God is using you in power? Paul said he did not come with mere wise words but in power, and false teachers are also spoken of as lacking in power.

To be sure power without purity is to be shunned, but power from God is absolute for authority of teachers.

[Guest yod]

laugh.gif I can imagine how frustrating it must be for you, but i could say the same.

Sorry but im not accusing you Yod, and i am obligated to say i think your wrong if i do. Anything else is dishonest.

I dont disagree that we are to keep the Sabbath, but as i have previously argued the spirit of the Sabbath means "a seventh part" and this is proven by other sevenths being keep as holy sabbaths in the bible.

I make note that you still have not attempted to post even ONE verse to support your opinion or your idol's opinion.

For the third or fourth time I will repeat that you haven't done this because it can't be done. Prove me wrong or apologize for your false accusation.

And by the way, no, it doesn't say "a seventh part".

It's says THE Seventh day. Deal with that, please.

And also...I've never said we are to keep the Sabbath. I haven't spoken to anything except the fact that the Sabbath is evening Friday to evening Saturday and post-biblical theologians don't have the authority to change it.

But apart from your posts here i know little of you or your fruits.

yet it hasn't stopped you from assuming I can't read the bible as well as Finney.

Care to show me how God is using you in power?

I have no reason to prove anything to you. The scriptures are true no matter which theologian says otherwise...and the truth is the truth even if it comes from a bum in an alley.

I'm still waiting for that ONE verse or an admission that you are wrong.

[JCISGD]

There are no commands anywhere in scripture to change the day of observance. Gods wisdom prevents this, but there is sufficient proof for it to be clear that the disciples went to the Synagogues to witness to the Jews, but met together for intimate fellowship with the LORD on the first day.

All the appearances of Christ after He had risen were on the first day and none on the seventh. This is a very compelling proof, and although insufficent on its own, there are other proofs that make it enough.

God set apart the seventh day for the world to observe in rememberance of His work of creation, this was wisdom for many reasons but one that leaps out in todays world is that man would soon deny who created the world without a constant reminder.

But now God has set apart the first day to observe in rememberance of His work of redemption.

Considering that as Isaiah says that this world will be rolled up like a scroll and thrown away, it is obvious which of the two is the infinatley far greater work.

We will forever be in worship around the throne of Christ the LORD of the Sabbath, and will not be praising Him for creation of this world but for a "new earth and a new heavens" and His work on the cross, among the myriads of this and His other beauties.

I only point to Finney as that is where i God showed me these things, but also because the fruits of his life prove God was his source.

[Arthur Durnan]

The Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath given only to the literal nation of Israel in Exodus 20 is Saturday, the seventh day, & given to Israel undrr the Mosaic economy. The Lord's Day for Christian believers is Sunday, the first day, Day of Jesus' glorious literal Resurrection. No Roman pope ever changed it; there were no popes when the disciples on earth commenced gathering on the New Day.

And why don't Sabbatarians apply themselves to my query re the loss of the Jewish Sabbath over the International Date Line. If one doesn't keep it, one has rebelled against Jehovah Who gave it....to Israel. If one insists on the Jewish Sabbath, one will have to accept the whole counsel of Jehovah on it including its punishment for breakage. Maybe Sabbatarians don't appreciate capital punishment all that much?

God Bless America!

[JCISGD]

Im not quoting early church fathers, and granted their fruits are as doubtful as their teaching in some cases. Finney himself stated that none should follow him except that he be found following God and that he expected others to improve on him. I recommend you read his biography/autobiography or "Finney lives on" and then his "systematic theology" and then come back and show me anything you disagree with.

First and its a small thing but the name is Mizzdy not Middzy. If Finney is teaching the sabbath is done away with and changed to Sunday then I really don't want to read him. I have read enough of the men who came before to know the bible holds all the truth and where we can gain some insights into many areas by those men they were just men also who like us form opinions, doctrines and traditions based on what happening either politically or religiously at their moment in time. What we learn from men we should always compare to scripture and that includes issues such as the sabbath.

I sincerely apologise for getting your name wrong Mizzdy, i really do need to be more careful sorry.

Based on that standard would you not also reject Moses who gave the hardened people concession to divorce knowing that God hated it?

The Jews rejected further light and did not have any prophet for 400 yrs before Christ, it is sin to reject light that God has provided. Dont get me wrong im not saying you are sinning or do sin by rejecting Finney.

Have you honestly laid the question before the LORD with no conditions asking Him to correct you if your wrong?

I was ready to join the Seventh day Adventist here in N.Z. I had completley surrended and said if its right to keep the seventh day then i shall do so. But God stepped in and showed me what i now know to be the truth about it.

[JCISGD]

The Jewish Seventh-day Sabbath given only to the literal nation of Israel in Exodus 20 is Saturday, the seventh day, & given to Israel undrr the Mosaic economy. The Lord's Day for Christian believers is Sunday, the first day, Day of Jesus' glorious literal Resurrection. No Roman pope ever changed it; there were no popes when the disciples on earth commenced gathering on the New Day.

And why don't Sabbatarians apply themselves to my query re the loss of the Jewish Sabbath over the International Date Line. If one doesn't keep it, one has rebelled against Jehovah Who gave it....to Israel. If one insists on the Jewish Sabbath, one will have to accept the whole counsel of Jehovah on it including its punishment for breakage. Maybe Sabbatarians don't appreciate capital punishment all that much?

God Bless America!

Arthurs united

God has blessed New Zealand!

[BlindSeeker]

I was ready to join the Seventh day Adventist here in N.Z. I had completley surrended and said if its right to keep the seventh day then i shall do so. But God stepped in and showed me what i now know to be the truth about it.

Nobody is defending the Seventh Day Adventist . . . but at least Arther won't have to ride alone in his crusade against it.

By the way, which other commandments were given only to the Jews besides the fourth that have been done away with?

Saying such silly things against something is not the same as establishing the truth of a thing.

[Guest yod]

There are no commands anywhere in scripture to change the day of observance.

That is short of an apology but I will accept it.

All the appearances of Christ after He had risen were on the first day and none on the seventh. This is a very compelling proof, and although insufficent on its own, there are other proofs that make it enough.

But you don't know why, do you?

Leviticus 23

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.

And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.

These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

Beside the (regular weekly) sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.

Yeshua was risen on the Feast of God (aka Feasts of Israel, Feasts of the Jews, etc) known as "Firstfruits".

That is always on the first day of the week following the Sabbath during the Feast of Weeks (which includes Passover). This is the REAL resurrection day.

Then, the commandment is to count 50 days until the Feast of Shavuot (aka Pentecost in the christian jargon). This had been done for at least 2,000 years before the actual resurrection so it's hardly anything "new" that God is proclaiming. The only difference is that now we see why this was commanded.

God has given these days as HIS memorials since thousands of years before Yeshua. You have liberty to honor the Lord in any way you wish but have chosen a european tradition. I will honor the Lord with you on any day!!!!! But the Sabbath was never changed and the first day of the week when Yeshua arose was done in fulfillment of the Feast of First Fruits.

oh and by the way, that Feast of Firstfruits day was ALSO changed by the same european theologians who instead chose to follow the spring equinox named after the Babylonian goddess of fertility, Ishtar, simply because they didn't want to have to consult the jews about their calendar.

But now God has set apart the first day to observe in rememberance of His work of redemption.

No....He has not. I'm still waiting for ONE scripture that says that

Considering that as Isaiah says that this world will be rolled up like a scroll and thrown away, it is obvious which of the two is the infinatley far greater work.

Then tell me why it is also Isaiah who says in chapter 66:

"As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD.

We will forever be in worship around the throne of Christ the LORD of the Sabbath, and will not be praising Him for creation of this world but for a "new earth and a new heavens"

Please note the above mentioned verse in Isaiah 66 where this concept comes

I only point to Finney as that is where i God showed me these things, but also because the fruits of his life prove God was his source.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (King James Version)

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

God is not hiding from us. His Word and His will are clearly spelled out for the common man within the pages of the Holy Bible. Finney's opinions are just that....opinions.

I consider commentaries...but reject them where they deviate from the clear words of the scriptures.

so, again....just ONE verse is all I'm asking you to provide.

I'm waiting

[BlindSeeker]

Yod, i honestly think it is you who are wrong about the sabbath, and your claim to prove it by scripture is really just your take.

:::sigh::::

OK....let's do this and find out. I'll quote how many times the Lord says to keep the Sabbath and you quote how many times He says that it changed to Sunday.

I'm ready when you can find ONE place. The challenge is for you to prove the false accusation you just made against me when saying it is "just my take"

Either find ONE place where it is written in the scriptures or apologize for being wrong and then making a false accusation against a brother.

Is God using you in revival and conversions of thousands of souls?

Yes, but that is a carnal human comparison and it's not mine to claim anyway.

if you were to read of Finney you would see no such carnality.

It's easy to do (and typical) when writing a biography.

The bible doesn't put rose colored lenses on it's heroes. Even Moses had weakness and failings.

I can imagine how frustrating it must be for you, but i could say the same.

Sorry but im not accusing you Yod, and i am obligated to say i think your wrong if i do. Anything else is dishonest.

I dont disagree that we are to keep the Sabbath, but as i have previously argued the spirit of the Sabbath means "a seventh part" and this is proven by other sevenths being keep as holy sabbaths in the bible.

If Finney had converted half the world but not shown purity, or had taught anything unsustained by scripture i would reject him as a man of God. But this is not what i have found.

But apart from your posts here i know little of you or your fruits. Care to show me how God is using you in power? Paul said he did not come with mere wise words but in power, and false teachers are also spoken of as lacking in power.

To be sure power without purity is to be shunned, but power from God is absolute for authority of teachers.

Yeah . . . makes one wonder even more about that Jonah guy . . . . even if he does have his own book in the bible . . . .

[BlindSeeker]

There are no commands anywhere in scripture to change the day of observance. Gods wisdom prevents this, but there is sufficient proof for it to be clear that the disciples went to the Synagogues to witness to the Jews, but met together for intimate fellowship with the LORD on the first day.

Where?

All the appearances of Christ after He had risen were on the first day and none on the seventh. This is a very compelling proof, and although insufficent on its own, there are other proofs that make it enough.

Compelling proof of what?

Why do you assign an assumption not confirmed by scripture?