Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's?

[Bold Believer]

Andy,

I understand the passage the same way as Jesus did. Caesar is an occupying force, not a legitimate government. You give an occupier whatever tribute he demands because he has defeated you, but you don't give in to evil decrees. Likewise with legitimate civil governments. When they give just and righteous decrees, we must obey them, and when they give evil and wicked decrees, we are under no obligation to obey those decrees.

Isaiah 6:8, yes it IS resisting. Arms are an absolute last resort. Our forefathers knew that; they didn't undertake their conflict lightly. It's why they put the redress of grievance into the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Man, I agree everything that you have given is from the Word. Thing is, so are some of the examples which I quoted. So then, either Scripture contradicts itself (which we know is impossible) or there are exceptions which exist. Obviously, the latter is true.

[Isaiah 6:8]

Okay I agree.

[~candice~]

Andy,

I understand the passage the same way as Jesus did. Caesar is an occupying force, not a legitimate government. You give an occupier whatever tribute he demands because he has defeated you, but you don't give in to evil decrees. Likewise with legitimate civil governments. When they give just and righteous decrees, we must obey them, and when they give evil and wicked decrees, we are under no obligation to obey those decrees.

Isaiah 6:8, yes it IS resisting. Arms are an absolute last resort. Our forefathers knew that; they didn't undertake their conflict lightly. It's why they put the redress of grievance into the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Man, I agree everything that you have given is from the Word. Thing is, so are some of the examples which I quoted. So then, either Scripture contradicts itself (which we know is impossible) or there are exceptions which exist. Obviously, the latter is true.

OK, if this is the case, how are you then applying it to America?

It takes a lot of boldness to claim you interpret the passage as Jesus did .

[Bold Believer]

Andy,

I understand the passage the same way as Jesus did. Caesar is an occupying force, not a legitimate government. You give an occupier whatever tribute he demands because he has defeated you, but you don't give in to evil decrees. Likewise with legitimate civil governments. When they give just and righteous decrees, we must obey them, and when they give evil and wicked decrees, we are under no obligation to obey those decrees.

Isaiah 6:8, yes it IS resisting. Arms are an absolute last resort. Our forefathers knew that; they didn't undertake their conflict lightly. It's why they put the redress of grievance into the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Man, I agree everything that you have given is from the Word. Thing is, so are some of the examples which I quoted. So then, either Scripture contradicts itself (which we know is impossible) or there are exceptions which exist. Obviously, the latter is true.

OK, if this is the case, how are you then applying it to America?

It takes a lot of boldness to claim you interpret the passage as Jesus did .

Read it again Andy...I understand the passage as I believe Jesus did. I looked at the Greek words which were used and after thinking about it and looking at the situation in which Jesus lived, I believe I have a correct/near correct understanding. And I brought up the subject because people often apply the passage to the USA when you really can't. We're not an occupied country, so the passage can't apply, hence my assertion "AMERICA HAS NO CAESAR." May God forbid that we ever do.

[~candice~]

Andy,

I understand the passage the same way as Jesus did. Caesar is an occupying force, not a legitimate government. You give an occupier whatever tribute he demands because he has defeated you, but you don't give in to evil decrees. Likewise with legitimate civil governments. When they give just and righteous decrees, we must obey them, and when they give evil and wicked decrees, we are under no obligation to obey those decrees.

Isaiah 6:8, yes it IS resisting. Arms are an absolute last resort. Our forefathers knew that; they didn't undertake their conflict lightly. It's why they put the redress of grievance into the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Man, I agree everything that you have given is from the Word. Thing is, so are some of the examples which I quoted. So then, either Scripture contradicts itself (which we know is impossible) or there are exceptions which exist. Obviously, the latter is true.

OK, if this is the case, how are you then applying it to America?

It takes a lot of boldness to claim you interpret the passage as Jesus did .

Read it again Andy...I understand the passage as I believe Jesus did. I looked at the Greek words which were used and after thinking about it and looking at the situation in which Jesus lived, I believe I have a correct/near correct understanding. And I brought up the subject because people often apply the passage to the USA when you really can't. We're not an occupied country, so the passage can't apply, hence my assertion "AMERICA HAS NO CAESAR." May God forbid that we ever do.

But yet, the principle very much DOES apply to America.

We are to give to the government it's dues. We are to rend our hearts the Lord. That passage was a call to salvation as much as it was a call to pay our earthly dues.

Did Jesus give commentary on that passage? How do we know His understanding in order to claim we understand the same?

I don't do this, I rely on teaching and the Holy Spirit.

[OneLight]

Andy,

I understand the passage the same way as Jesus did. Caesar is an occupying force, not a legitimate government. You give an occupier whatever tribute he demands because he has defeated you, but you don't give in to evil decrees. Likewise with legitimate civil governments. When they give just and righteous decrees, we must obey them, and when they give evil and wicked decrees, we are under no obligation to obey those decrees.

Isaiah 6:8, yes it IS resisting. Arms are an absolute last resort. Our forefathers knew that; they didn't undertake their conflict lightly. It's why they put the redress of grievance into the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Man, I agree everything that you have given is from the Word. Thing is, so are some of the examples which I quoted. So then, either Scripture contradicts itself (which we know is impossible) or there are exceptions which exist. Obviously, the latter is true.

You understand the time of Christ, but I do not believe you understand the context of the message. Rendering onto "Caesar" is talking about the governing authority, legitimate or not, they are the ruling authority. Christ is telling us to pay our taxes as required, but also pointing that we should also pay God what belongs to Him.

It does not matter if there is a "Caesar" in the White House or a President. They are the ruling party and have created laws to follow. Unless a law goes against Gods word, we are to obey them.

[~candice~]

Andy,

I understand the passage the same way as Jesus did. Caesar is an occupying force, not a legitimate government. You give an occupier whatever tribute he demands because he has defeated you, but you don't give in to evil decrees. Likewise with legitimate civil governments. When they give just and righteous decrees, we must obey them, and when they give evil and wicked decrees, we are under no obligation to obey those decrees.

Isaiah 6:8, yes it IS resisting. Arms are an absolute last resort. Our forefathers knew that; they didn't undertake their conflict lightly. It's why they put the redress of grievance into the Constitution/Bill of Rights.

Man, I agree everything that you have given is from the Word. Thing is, so are some of the examples which I quoted. So then, either Scripture contradicts itself (which we know is impossible) or there are exceptions which exist. Obviously, the latter is true.

You understand the time of Christ, but I do not believe you understand the context of the message. Rendering onto "Caesar" is talking about the governing authority, legitimate or not, they are the ruling authority. Christ is telling us to pay our taxes as required, but also pointing that we should also pay God what belongs to Him.

It does not matter if there is a "Caesar" in the White House or a President. They are the ruling party and have created laws to follow. Unless a law goes against Gods word, we are to obey them.

Right, it is about rending to the governing officials, whether they be christian or not, righteous or not. The Lord has put them there, and we are to be in obedience where their commands do not conflict with His.

[Guest man]

Matthew 22

19 Show Me the tax money.

[HitmanR2]

If we don't pay our taxes, I know where we will wind up!

.

Edited June 21, 2010 by HitmanR2

[georgedrw81]

You understand the time of Christ, but I do not believe you understand the context of the message. Rendering onto "Caesar" is talking about the governing authority, legitimate or not, they are the ruling authority. Christ is telling us to pay our taxes as required, but also pointing that we should also pay God what belongs to Him.

It does not matter if there is a "Caesar" in the White House or a President. They are the ruling party and have created laws to follow. Unless a law goes against Gods word, we are to obey them.

Right