WE (citizens) must show I.D. when........

[MorningGlory]

Why shouldn't we guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does

Because the folks that are pushing open borders are trying to set up the North American Union, by combining Canada, Mexico and the US into a three state mega nation of sorts. They want open economies, borders and if possible a single currency. At least that's what they wrote about in the early seventies when the push for this started in earnist..

If 'they' wrote about this 40 years ago......what became of it?

NAFTA

GAT

Let unsafe Mexican trucks drive on our roads

and all along not inforcing our borders.

They are still trying to find a way to do their fancy highways across the USA from Mexico to Canada. This is to bypass the ports in California where unionized labor run the costs of importing up.

Just something that they have slowly done in the background.

In the backround? This has been all over the news over the past decade. Who DOESN'T know about it?

[other one]

Why shouldn't we guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does

Because the folks that are pushing open borders are trying to set up the North American Union, by combining Canada, Mexico and the US into a three state mega nation of sorts. They want open economies, borders and if possible a single currency. At least that's what they wrote about in the early seventies when the push for this started in earnist..

If 'they' wrote about this 40 years ago......what became of it?

NAFTA

GAT

Let unsafe Mexican trucks drive on our roads

and all along not inforcing our borders.

They are still trying to find a way to do their fancy highways across the USA from Mexico to Canada. This is to bypass the ports in California where unionized labor run the costs of importing up.

Just something that they have slowly done in the background.

In the backround? This has been all over the news over the past decade. Who DOESN'T know about it?

It was my understanding that after Texas did the vote on the highways, that those who want them are having to try work arounds in the background. We don't hear much about their actions as we did earlier.. Everyone may know about it, but who's reall up to date with their progress.

[MorningGlory]

Why shouldn't we guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does

Because the folks that are pushing open borders are trying to set up the North American Union, by combining Canada, Mexico and the US into a three state mega nation of sorts. They want open economies, borders and if possible a single currency. At least that's what they wrote about in the early seventies when the push for this started in earnist..

If 'they' wrote about this 40 years ago......what became of it?

NAFTA

GAT

Let unsafe Mexican trucks drive on our roads

and all along not inforcing our borders.

They are still trying to find a way to do their fancy highways across the USA from Mexico to Canada. This is to bypass the ports in California where unionized labor run the costs of importing up.

Just something that they have slowly done in the background.

In the backround? This has been all over the news over the past decade. Who DOESN'T know about it?

It was my understanding that after Texas did the vote on the highways, that those who want them are having to try work arounds in the background. We don't hear much about their actions as we did earlier.. Everyone may know about it, but who's reall up to date with their progress.

Where did you read this or hear about it? It's totally defunct as far as I know. At least in this economy.

[Rick-Parker]

Not to hijack the thread in any way or to start an argument but I don't get the whole " This is our land and that is your land and you can't come here unless we say you can " stuff. In the bible days people traveled from country to country all the time and when they arrived in a new land for the most part they were welcomed with open arms and if they so chose they could settle down there and work to make a living for their family and what have you.

God made the earth for all men it was man who later decided that certain pieces of it belonged to him and only him therefore the idea of borders came about. He didn't tell Adam and Eve I have made you rulers over all the earth but you can only rule part of it this other part over here belongs to the lions and this part here belongs to the deer etc... I understand what happened at the tower of babel and as a result different lands and countries were founded because of it but it doesn't say one group of humans speaking one language wasn't allowed to settle down in an area where a group that spoke a different one was also they just wouldn't be able to understand each other.

Some folks claim it has to be that way to make sure the U.S. doesn't become overpopulated but again I don't ever remember God telling folks " Sorry you can't live in Israel it's filled to capacity you'll have to move on down the road some place ".

* Shrugs *

OK. Try moving to Mexico without permission and see what happens to you. Illegal immigrants are just that, illegal. All we are asking is that they enter the US legally. Instead, they sneak in, don't pay taxes, get free health care - forcing our country into socialized medicine - get a free education for their children (without paying taxes), and demand special treatment. That doesn't happen anywhere else. And this has nothing to do with religion. What would Jesus do? He would tell them that they must obey the laws of the land. Wouldn't he?

[MorningGlory]

Not to hijack the thread in any way or to start an argument but I don't get the whole " This is our land and that is your land and you can't come here unless we say you can " stuff. In the bible days people traveled from country to country all the time and when they arrived in a new land for the most part they were welcomed with open arms and if they so chose they could settle down there and work to make a living for their family and what have you.

God made the earth for all men it was man who later decided that certain pieces of it belonged to him and only him therefore the idea of borders came about. He didn't tell Adam and Eve I have made you rulers over all the earth but you can only rule part of it this other part over here belongs to the lions and this part here belongs to the deer etc... I understand what happened at the tower of babel and as a result different lands and countries were founded because of it but it doesn't say one group of humans speaking one language wasn't allowed to settle down in an area where a group that spoke a different one was also they just wouldn't be able to understand each other.

Some folks claim it has to be that way to make sure the U.S. doesn't become overpopulated but again I don't ever remember God telling folks " Sorry you can't live in Israel it's filled to capacity you'll have to move on down the road some place ".

* Shrugs *

OK. Try moving to Mexico without permission and see what happens to you. Illegal immigrants are just that, illegal. All we are asking is that they enter the US legally. Instead, they sneak in, don't pay taxes, get free health care - forcing our country into socialized medicine - get a free education for their children (without paying taxes), and demand special treatment. That doesn't happen anywhere else. And this has nothing to do with religion. What would Jesus do? He would tell them that they must obey the laws of the land. Wouldn't he?

Yes, He absolutely would tell them that. Remember what he told the Jews of His time. I can't recall the exact passage but He told them to obey the laws of the land. Our friends to the south are woefully indifferent to His words.

[MorningGlory]

Why shouldn't we guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does

Because the folks that are pushing open borders are trying to set up the North American Union, by combining Canada, Mexico and the US into a three state mega nation of sorts. They want open economies, borders and if possible a single currency. At least that's what they wrote about in the early seventies when the push for this started in earnest..

The push to which you refer began about 1973 or later...right after the publishing of the Humanist Manifesto 2. I don't believe in coincidence. If you read the HM2, you will see that it is in fact the source of many of the laws and treaties which have been popping up in the world since that time period. Interestingly enough, Roe v Wade was also decided in 1973. There IS a connection.

The Constitution's Fourth Amendment tells us:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

2. Making purchases on a department store credit card.

3. When showing up for a doctor's appointment.

4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.

6. When applying for any kind of insurance.

7. When filling out college applications.

10. When making some debit purchases, especially out of state.

11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.

Are all violations of the Fourth Amendment. The agencies and entities requesting the information have no right to it. It smacks of 'papieren bitte'* circa 1933.

*papieren bitte: the Nazi bureauocracy's demand for identification to German citizens during the 12 years of the Nazi regime 1933-1945; the phrase means 'papers please.'

Well then....if they don't ask for I.D. anyone can make a purchase on your credit, use your health insurance and register a weapon in your name, at any time. You know, that really doesn't sound like such a great idea to me. It's not a conspiracy either.

[MorningGlory]

Not to hijack the thread in any way or to start an argument but I don't get the whole " This is our land and that is your land and you can't come here unless we say you can " stuff. In the bible days people traveled from country to country all the time and when they arrived in a new land for the most part they were welcomed with open arms and if they so chose they could settle down there and work to make a living for their family and what have you.

God made the earth for all men it was man who later decided that certain pieces of it belonged to him and only him therefore the idea of borders came about. He didn't tell Adam and Eve I have made you rulers over all the earth but you can only rule part of it this other part over here belongs to the lions and this part here belongs to the deer etc... I understand what happened at the tower of babel and as a result different lands and countries were founded because of it but it doesn't say one group of humans speaking one language wasn't allowed to settle down in an area where a group that spoke a different one was also they just wouldn't be able to understand each other.

Some folks claim it has to be that way to make sure the U.S. doesn't become overpopulated but again I don't ever remember God telling folks " Sorry you can't live in Israel it's filled to capacity you'll have to move on down the road some place ".

* Shrugs *

I guess it would be okay with you if an illegal threw you out of your house then and took it for himself? Are you serious?

[Rick-Parker]

Why shouldn't we guard our borders as closely as every other country in the world does

Because the folks that are pushing open borders are trying to set up the North American Union, by combining Canada, Mexico and the US into a three state mega nation of sorts. They want open economies, borders and if possible a single currency. At least that's what they wrote about in the early seventies when the push for this started in earnest..

The push to which you refer began about 1973 or later...right after the publishing of the Humanist Manifesto 2. I don't believe in coincidence. If you read the HM2, you will see that it is in fact the source of many of the laws and treaties which have been popping up in the world since that time period. Interestingly enough, Roe v Wade was also decided in 1973. There IS a connection.

The Constitution's Fourth Amendment tells us:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

2. Making purchases on a department store credit card.

3. When showing up for a doctor's appointment.

4. When filling out a credit card or loan application.

6. When applying for any kind of insurance.

7. When filling out college applications.

10. When making some debit purchases, especially out of state.

11. When collecting a boarding pass for airline or train travel.

Are all violations of the Fourth Amendment. The agencies and entities requesting the information have no right to it. It smacks of 'papieren bitte'* circa 1933.

*papieren bitte: the Nazi bureauocracy's demand for identification to German citizens during the 12 years of the Nazi regime 1933-1945; the phrase means 'papers please.'

Doing those things I have highlighted is not a right. You don't have to do them. If you don't want to show your ID, then just don't do those things. Showing your papers comes with the territory if you want to doing things. Want to drive? Prove who you are. If you don't think it is Constitutional, then don't drive. Want to buy a house but don't want to prove who you are? Than you can't buy a house. Sorry mate, but if you want to do things that are voluntary, then you probably need to show ID.

[oldzimm]

Not to hijack the thread in any way or to start an argument but I don't get the whole " This is our land and that is your land and you can't come here unless we say you can " stuff. In the bible days people traveled from country to country all the time and when they arrived in a new land for the most part they were welcomed with open arms and if they so chose they could settle down there and work to make a living for their family and what have you.

God made the earth for all men it was man who later decided that certain pieces of it belonged to him and only him therefore the idea of borders came about. He didn't tell Adam and Eve I have made you rulers over all the earth but you can only rule part of it this other part over here belongs to the lions and this part here belongs to the deer etc... I understand what happened at the tower of babel and as a result different lands and countries were founded because of it but it doesn't say one group of humans speaking one language wasn't allowed to settle down in an area where a group that spoke a different one was also they just wouldn't be able to understand each other.

Some folks claim it has to be that way to make sure the U.S. doesn't become overpopulated but again I don't ever remember God telling folks " Sorry you can't live in Israel it's filled to capacity you'll have to move on down the road some place ".

* Shrugs *

OK. Try moving to Mexico without permission and see what happens to you. Illegal immigrants are just that, illegal. All we are asking is that they enter the US legally. Instead, they sneak in, don't pay taxes, get free health care - forcing our country into socialized medicine - get a free education for their children (without paying taxes), and demand special treatment. That doesn't happen anywhere else. And this has nothing to do with religion. What would Jesus do? He would tell them that they must obey the laws of the land. Wouldn't he?

Parker you covered it quite well.

[MorningGlory]

Not to hijack the thread in any way or to start an argument but I don't get the whole " This is our land and that is your land and you can't come here unless we say you can " stuff. In the bible days people traveled from country to country all the time and when they arrived in a new land for the most part they were welcomed with open arms and if they so chose they could settle down there and work to make a living for their family and what have you.

God made the earth for all men it was man who later decided that certain pieces of it belonged to him and only him therefore the idea of borders came about. He didn't tell Adam and Eve I have made you rulers over all the earth but you can only rule part of it this other part over here belongs to the lions and this part here belongs to the deer etc... I understand what happened at the tower of babel and as a result different lands and countries were founded because of it but it doesn't say one group of humans speaking one language wasn't allowed to settle down in an area where a group that spoke a different one was also they just wouldn't be able to understand each other.

Some folks claim it has to be that way to make sure the U.S. doesn't become overpopulated but again I don't ever remember God telling folks " Sorry you can't live in Israel it's filled to capacity you'll have to move on down the road some place ".

* Shrugs *

OK. Try moving to Mexico without permission and see what happens to you. Illegal immigrants are just that, illegal. All we are asking is that they enter the US legally. Instead, they sneak in, don't pay taxes, get free health care - forcing our country into socialized medicine - get a free education for their children (without paying taxes), and demand special treatment. That doesn't happen anywhere else. And this has nothing to do with religion. What would Jesus do? He would tell them that they must obey the laws of the land. Wouldn't he?

Parker you covered it quite well.