Fulness of the gentiles.

[mizzdy]

I do think its when all who will return to Him from those scattered into the nations, thats when it will be complete. Yeshua came for the 'lost sheep' of Israel, they weren't really lost but God gave them over to the nations, scattered until the time of restoration is complete. Israel is all who believe, who return to Him, no matter genetics or what have you just as in the exodus of Egypt all who walk in faith belong to Him. The fulness would be the completion of all who 'keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah' and it brings the end of the age into the olam haba, the world to come or the Millennial reign of the Messiah. Ephraim the younger son was given the birthrite of the older son to become a greater people than his brother and we see that Ephraim was the largest of the tribes of the Northern Kingdom and in many instance we see Ephraim being called Israel or that the tribe represented Israel to the populous.

interesting..does olam haba=the resurrection?

I would think it is. It is the world to come, thats the best translation. I'll even go out on a limb and say it is the Garden of Eden that was removed from the earth after the fall and its whats causing the birth pangs, the coming kingdom of God. I have often thought that its the place where we all go after death waiting for the kingdom to come to earth. I of course don't have it all figured but its an interesting and fascinating subject, theres a woman named Dr. Diana Dye if you can find her stuff on the net I would recommend her work on this subject. All I have are a few youtube so can't post them here.

[OneLight]

Gen 48: 19 explains that Ephraim is the fullness of the gentiles or nations. Not specifically the tribe yet since all of the Northern Kingdom was dispersed they are scattered within all the nations of the world and when the 'fullness' of Ephraim or the nations come into belief of God and His Son then the 'fullness of the gentiles' will be fulfilled.

Gen 48:19 NAS77

(19) But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know; he also shall become a people and he also shall be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations."

Gen 48:19 LITV

(19) And his father refused and said, I know, my son, I know. He also shall be a people, and he shall become great. But his younger brother shall become greater than he, and his seed shall become the fullness of the nations.

I thought this was the blessing given to Abraham being repeated onto Ephraim.

Are you saying when the nations the northern 10 tribes are dispersed in have received the Gospel then Jesus will return?

I do think its when all who will return to Him from those scattered into the nations, thats when it will be complete. Yeshua came for the 'lost sheep' of Israel, they weren't really lost but God gave them over to the nations, scattered until the time of restoration is complete. Israel is all who believe, who return to Him, no matter genetics or what have you just as in the exodus of Egypt all who walk in faith belong to Him. The fulness would be the completion of all who 'keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah' and it brings the end of the age into the olam haba, the world to come or the Millennial reign of the Messiah. Ephraim the younger son was given the birthrite of the older son to become a greater people than his brother and we see that Ephraim was the largest of the tribes of the Northern Kingdom and in many instance we see Ephraim being called Israel or that the tribe represented Israel to the populous.

This sounds like replacement theory. Do you see the church replacing Israel?

[mizzdy]

Gen 48: 19 explains that Ephraim is the fullness of the gentiles or nations. Not specifically the tribe yet since all of the Northern Kingdom was dispersed they are scattered within all the nations of the world and when the 'fullness' of Ephraim or the nations come into belief of God and His Son then the 'fullness of the gentiles' will be fulfilled.

Gen 48:19 NAS77

(19) But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know; he also shall become a people and he also shall be great. However, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his descendants shall become a multitude of nations."

Gen 48:19 LITV

(19) And his father refused and said, I know, my son, I know. He also shall be a people, and he shall become great. But his younger brother shall become greater than he, and his seed shall become the fullness of the nations.

I thought this was the blessing given to Abraham being repeated onto Ephraim.

Are you saying when the nations the northern 10 tribes are dispersed in have received the Gospel then Jesus will return?

I do think its when all who will return to Him from those scattered into the nations, thats when it will be complete. Yeshua came for the 'lost sheep' of Israel, they weren't really lost but God gave them over to the nations, scattered until the time of restoration is complete. Israel is all who believe, who return to Him, no matter genetics or what have you just as in the exodus of Egypt all who walk in faith belong to Him. The fulness would be the completion of all who 'keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah' and it brings the end of the age into the olam haba, the world to come or the Millennial reign of the Messiah. Ephraim the younger son was given the birthrite of the older son to become a greater people than his brother and we see that Ephraim was the largest of the tribes of the Northern Kingdom and in many instance we see Ephraim being called Israel or that the tribe represented Israel to the populous.

This sounds like replacement theory. Do you see the church replacing Israel?

No not replacement theology how do you see replacement theology in what I wrote?, I see the church as Israel and 'Israel' was scattered and promised to be brought back if they returned to Him. Doesn't Yeshua Himself say He came for the lost sheep of Israel? and doesn't He not say in Rev. and elsewhere that all who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Yeshua are the ones He will come back for? And if He is saying Israel is all who believe in God and the Messiah are part of Israel, Israel I am talking about is not Israel we see in the land today. You see I see those who came out of Egypt as not only Israelites but Egyptians, Kennizites and a whole smattering of nationalities who had faith in God, enough to walk out of their own country to follow Him. Just as we see today, neither Jew or Greek but all one body who believe in Him.

[nebula]

This sounds like replacement theory. Do you see the church replacing Israel?

No, this is the 2 House / Ephraimite theological mess.

Sigh, where's Yod when you need him?

[mizzdy]

This sounds like replacement theory. Do you see the church replacing Israel?

No, this is the 2 House / Ephraimite theological mess.

Sigh, where's Yod when you need him?

Actually I have had a converstation or two with Yod about this and he did agree I was not doing as you say. Where is the two houses in my post? If Yeshua came for the lost of Israel, the scattered, it makes sense that this 'group' is the church of today they are the ones who hold to the testimony of the Messiah, correct? those in the body of Messiah keep Gods commandments don't they? So how is this a two house thinking? Doesn't Eph. 2:11-13 tells us that 'we were without Messiah, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Messiah Yeshua you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Messiah.'? Not sure how you can get 2 house from this. Is the church a complete and separate enity than what is described in the above passage? Did some new thing called 'church' replace Israel in Gods eyes? After all God is called the God of Israel and no one else, the covenant is made with Judah, unrepentant at this time, and Israel, all who believe and obey.

I don't wish to get into a debate about two houses, so unfruitful, but I would like to know how you got 'Ephraimite theological mess' from my post, please. I made the comment how Ephraim was the largest of the tribes and thus in some cases in scripture we see Ephraim representing Israel as a whole, and I wrote that Gen. 48 showed how the birthrite went to Ephraim instead of Mannasseh and how I veiwed the fullness of the Gentiles as all of Israel who returns to God and believes the Messiah has come and will return. I can't see a Ephraimite mess in the post so please let me know what you are seeing.

[Joshua-777]

All Israel will come to know Yeshua the Messiah.

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

[Guest agua]

Israel is still Gods holy nation, and Israel is Our inheritance, (Rev 21) And the Israelites will come to know God, they are the election and they are beloved because the gifts and the callings of God are irrevocable.

God keeps His promises

I believe the fulness of the gentiles means the max amount, all the gentiles that are going to be saved.

a predetermined number?

[nebula]

OK, Mizzdy, my apologies. Will you forgive me?

[mizzdy]

OK, Mizzdy, my apologies. Will you forgive me?

No worries at all Nebula!!

[lekh l'kha]