Are we punished for sinning?

[Guest]

What is the difference between discipline and punishment?

Good Question - God's Love?

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Psalms 23:4

Or God's Wrath?

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Choices

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

[Believer1997]

The Christian conscience can punish sternly sometimes.... but, yes - we are punished for sinning.

[Guest shiloh357]

Sin has built-in consequences. If you drive drunk, if you fornicate, if you if you gossip, lie, betray a friend, are unfaithful to your spouse, etc., you will reap the "harvest" your actions have sown.

We are NOT still being punished for Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden. Jesus bore that punishment on the cross. People forget that Jesus' death was not so much about the sins we commit; it was about delivering mankind from the dominion of sin and the death penalty that hangs over the collective head of madkind. Jesus paid for our punishment on the cross. Jesus bore the penalty of death, which we rightly deserve and in doing so, Jesus satisfied the righteousness of God's judgment against sin. God's justice has been completely satisfied in the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ.

The Bible does not teach that man is collectively guilty for what Adam did in the Garden. What it says is that through Adam's disobedience, death (spiritual separation from God) has been passed to all mankind even to those who did not sin in the same way Adam sinned (Rom. 5:14). Because of Adam's transgression sin was able to have dominion in the world as a result, each person is, by default, born a sinner. No one is a sinner because of what they do, but because of what they are and how they stand before God. The sins we commit are the symptom of a much greater problem.

Jesus has imputed (credited to our account) His righteousness on the grounds of our faith in in Him and the finished work of the cross. That is the foundation on which our salvation rests. Those who accept Christ as Savior and Lord are judged and declared righteous before God solely upon the all-sufficient, finished work of Jesus on the cross. If you have trusted Christ as Savior, sin no longer has dominion over you and you stand before God under grace (Rom. 6:14)

On the other hand, for those who choose continued separation from God, there is an existence and it is something you do not want. Hell/Lake of Fire, whatever you want to call it, is not a "punishment." It is not something God inflicts on anyone. It is the eternal, builtl-in consequence for rejecting Christ. Those who choose continued separation from God remain under the dominion of sin and are under the law (Rom. 6:14)

When you step out into eternity, the only thing you take with you is the decision you made for or against Jesus. It is also important to point out that indecision about Christ is a decision against Him.

God does discipline us when we go astray, but there is a stark difference between discipline and punishment. Jesus has already borne our punishment. Discipline teaches, purges and sharpens us. It makes us better. It may not be pleasant but in the end, it brings forth a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who are trained by it (Heb. 12:11)

[josephine tomczuk]

if God corrects our sin thats not punishment thats mercy

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Botz]

We are NOT still being punished for Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden. Jesus bore that punishment on the cross. People forget that Jesus' death was not so much about the sins we commit; it was about delivering mankind from the dominion of sin and the death penalty that hangs over the collective head of madkind (left that typo in...might use it sometime). Jesus paid for our punishment on the cross. Jesus bore the penalty of death, which we rightly deserve and in doing so, Jesus satisfied the righteousness of God's judgment against sin. God's justice has been completely satisfied in the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ.

Hi bro, just mulling this over a bit and thinking aloud.

I would say that the consequences of Adams sin resulted in physical death (eventually) and intimate relationship (immediately), and that being the case we are still being punished for Adam's sin otherwise what is death and why does it occur? It may well have been turned into victory, but until that time we still pay the price in our flesh....even through the whole process of dying which for some can be a long drawn out, painful, tearful, frightening experience.

What I understand that Jesus has done through placing Himself upon the cross, is to close the gap that came through separation (immediately) and the promise of redemption of the body (eventually) to all that repent and trust in Him.

In a sense G-d has circumnavigated the just punishment that He decreed, by giving us a get out of Jail Card...He can't back-track on what He has ordained, but right from the beginning in His justice and mercy He had chosen His Son to redeem us.

Job 19:25

[Fez]

Sin has built-in consequences. If you drive drunk, if you fornicate, if you if you gossip, lie, betray a friend, are unfaithful to your spouse, etc., you will reap the "harvest" your actions have sown.

We are NOT still being punished for Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden. Jesus bore that punishment on the cross. People forget that Jesus' death was not so much about the sins we commit; it was about delivering mankind from the dominion of sin and the death penalty that hangs over the collective head of madkind. Jesus paid for our punishment on the cross. Jesus bore the penalty of death, which we rightly deserve and in doing so, Jesus satisfied the righteousness of God's judgment against sin. God's justice has been completely satisfied in the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ.

The Bible does not teach that man is collectively guilty for what Adam did in the Garden. What it says is that through Adam's disobedience, death (spiritual separation from God) has been passed to all mankind even to those who did not sin in the same way Adam sinned (Rom. 5:14). Because of Adam's transgression sin was able to have dominion in the world as a result, each person is, by default, born a sinner. No one is a sinner because of what they do, but because of what they are and how they stand before God. The sins we commit are the symptom of a much greater problem.

Jesus has imputed (credited to our account) His righteousness on the grounds of our faith in in Him and the finished work of the cross. That is the foundation on which our salvation rests. Those who accept Christ as Savior and Lord are judged and declared righteous before God solely upon the all-sufficient, finished work of Jesus on the cross. If you have trusted Christ as Savior, sin no longer has dominion over you and you stand before God under grace (Rom. 6:14)

On the other hand, for those who choose continued separation from God, there is an existence and it is something you do not want. Hell/Lake of Fire, whatever you want to call it, is not a "punishment." It is not something God inflicts on anyone. It is the eternal, builtl-in consequence for rejecting Christ. Those who choose continued separation from God remain under the dominion of sin and are under the law (Rom. 6:14)

When you step out into eternity, the only thing you take with you is the decision you made for or against Jesus. It is also important to point out that indecision about Christ is a decision against Him.

God does discipline us when we go astray, but there is a stark difference between discipline and punishment. Jesus has already borne our punishment. Discipline teaches, purges and sharpens us. It makes us better. It may not be pleasant but in the end, it brings forth a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who are trained by it (Heb. 12:11)

Well explained!

God does discipline us when we go astray, but there is a stark difference between discipline and punishment. Jesus has already borne our punishment. Discipline teaches, purges and sharpens us. It makes us better. It may not be pleasant but in the end, it brings forth a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who are trained by it (Heb. 12:11)

When I posted the quote "We are punished by our sins, not for them", this is what I wanted to hear.

I think that because of our fallen nature, the discipline God uses to teach us, often (nearly always), feels like punishment, but in His eyes, and scripturally, it is not punishment, it is discipline tempered with amazing love, and covered in grace...

[Believer112]

I believe when we sin, we invite the devil into our life.

1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

[Guest shiloh357]

Hi bro, just mulling this over a bit and thinking aloud.

I would say that the consequences of Adams sin resulted in physical death (eventually) and intimate relationship (immediately), and that being the case we are still being punished for Adam's sin otherwise what is death and why does it occur?

Adam's sin was paid for on the cross. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law (spiritual death/separation from God), but we have not been redeemed from the curse of the fall. We still die because we are yet awaiting the redemption of our bodies.

It may well have been turned into victory, but until that time we still pay the price in our flesh....even through the whole process of dying which for some can be a long drawn out, painful, tearful, frightening experience.

Yes, but it is not a punishment from God. Physical death is the consequence we still have to endure as humans, but it is eclipsed by the hope of eternal life. Jesus bore our punishment on the cross. If we are still being punished for what Jesus paid for, then the work of Christ on the cross is meaningless and detracts from the Glory of God.

What I understand that Jesus has done through placing Himself upon the cross, is to close the gap that came through separation (immediately) and the promise of redemption of the body (eventually) to all that repent and trust in Him.

That is part of it. He did quite a bit more than that on the cross. His death brought deliverance from the dominion of sin, the reality of eternal life and justification for anyone willing to trust in Him.

In a sense G-d has circumnavigated the just punishment that He decreed, by giving us a get out of Jail Card

Not so. He did not circumnavigate it at all. To have circumnavigated it would simply mean doing an end run around His justice. Jesus' work on the cross was not a circumnavigtion. God fulfililed His justice completely. The totality of His contempt for sin and the full weight of His justice fell upon Jesus and Jesus bore away in His flesh the full penalty of all of our iniquity. The punishment for sin was borne by Christ completely making Him the final offering for sin for all men for all time.

[sunnier]

I once heard a pastor say that God doesn't punish us he disciplines us. I honestly don't see a difference.

[Botz]

Hi bro, just mulling this over a bit and thinking aloud.

I would say that the consequences of Adams sin resulted in physical death (eventually) and intimate relationship (immediately), and that being the case we are still being punished for Adam's sin otherwise what is death and why does it occur?

Adam's sin was paid for on the cross. We have been redeemed from the curse of the law (spiritual death/separation from God), but we have not been redeemed from the curse of the law. We still die because we are yet awaiting the redemption of our bodies.

I think that is what I just said in so many words.

It may well have been turned into victory, but until that time we still pay the price in our flesh....even through the whole process of dying which for some can be a long drawn out, painful, tearful, frightening experience.

Yes, but it is not a punishment from God. Physical death is the consequence we still have to endure as humans, but it is eclipsed by the hope of eternal life. Jesus bore our punishment on the cross. If we are still being punished for what Jesus paid for, then the work of Christ on the cross is meaningless and detracts from the Glory of God.

I don't quite see that. We bear in our bodies the sentence of death, because in Adam all die....this is a direct consequence of Adams sin, and has been passed on through the Human race...our death of this physical body is a living testimony to the consequences of sin, and an example of the judgment of G-d....it is a fact that we will die as a direct result of the just punishment G-d decreed if His instructions were disobeyed.

Far from making the atoning sacrifice of the Lamb of G-d meaningless, it vindicates the righteousness of G-d who provided a way out ....death has been justly decreed, G-d does not go back on His word, and even the sacrifice of Jesus does not stop death. The purpose of the atoning blood was not to stop physical death...it was to pay the price required for our redemption, turn away the wrath of G-d and restore the relationship.

Far from detracting from the Glory of G-d, it establishes His utter love for us and demonstrates the lengths He is prepared to go to...even death on the cross. It is beyond comprehension that the Father who had enjoyed unbroken fellowship with the Son from all eternity was prepared to let Him become the sin which He hated so that we might live.

2Cor 5:21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

In a sense G-d has circumnavigated the just punishment that He decreed, by giving us a get out of Jail Card

Not so. He did not circumnavigate it at all. To have circumnavigated it would simply mean doing an end run around His justice. Jesus' work on the cross was not a circumnavigtion. God fulfililed His justice completely. The totality of His contempt for sin and the full weight of His justice fell upon Jesus and Jesus bore away in His flesh the full penalty of all of our iniquity. The punishment for sin was borne by Christ completely making Him the final offering for sin for all men for all time.

I could probably have expressed my thoughts better...the thought I had in mind was that death was decreed, and there was no way back from it....and yet G-d in His mercy etc etc.