Christians

[Yahsway]

Yes, I agree that we do not need DNA squads going around to find out who is of a true bloodline of Israel. That would be against Yeshuas teaching for we are not to be prideful in anyway, be we "jewish" or ephraimite believers.

The "gentiles" were first called christians at Antich? My scriptures says the "disciples" were first called christians at Antioch. My footnote reads that christians is a transliteration of the greek christianos, which was a simple, and most likely a derisive name given to the early followers of Yeshua, not unlike a believers today being called a "Jesus-person" in an uncomplimentary way.

As for the verse about the gentiles who did not pursue rightousness. why do you think they did not pursue rightousness. What does the very title "gentile" mean? Besides meaning not jewish that is. Every dictionary I have puts the word "heathen" with gentile, so what is a gentile?and, we are told many times in old and new test. not to learn the way of the heathen.

Is it somehow more prestigous to say I am a jewish believer than to say I am a gentile believer? How about were are all believers. I belong to the God of Israel, and to His Son, Yeshua, and since they are both one, I being a former gentile am now an Israelite and heir according to His promise. I love you my brethern. cindy

[other one]

Are you sure she just can't spell very well? You should see some of the spelling on this board, (LOL!)....just a thought..

you talkin a me lady?????

[Jedi4Yahweh]

Yes, I agree that we do not need DNA squads going around to find out who is of a true bloodline of Israel. That would be against Yeshuas teaching for we are not to be prideful in anyway, be we "jewish" or ephraimite believers.

The "gentiles" were first called christians at Antich? My scriptures says the "disciples" were first called christians at Antioch. My footnote reads that christians is a transliteration of the greek christianos, which was a simple, and most likely a derisive name given to the early followers of Yeshua, not unlike a believers today being called a "Jesus-person" in an uncomplimentary way.

As for the verse about the gentiles who did not pursue rightousness. why do you think they did not pursue rightousness. What does the very title "gentile" mean? Besides meaning not jewish that is. Every dictionary I have puts the word "heathen" with gentile, so what is a gentile?and, we are told many times in old and new test. not to learn the way of the heathen.

Is it somehow more prestigous to say I am a jewish believer than to say I am a gentile believer? How about were are all believers. I belong to the God of Israel, and to His Son, Yeshua, and since they are both one, I being a former gentile am now an Israelite and heir according to His promise.

[Yahsway]

Amen Jedi4Yahweh! So, how is it that I am boasting when I refer to myself as a Believeing Israelite? I dont refer to myself as a gentile because for me that very word means heathen.

Its an oxymoron to me. In my opinion, I cant be a heathen and a believer in Yeshua. Does anyone see where I am coming from? I love my jewish brethern. My husband is a jewish believer, but he too refers to himself as a believing Israelite.

And we both see all peoples who believe and put their faith in Yeshua as one peoples. But, we continue to divide ourselves. For example, what is the difference between messianic assemblies and the different protestant assemblies? Is there division there? I think so. I got really tired of some people "boasting" against the jews because they believed they were now the "chosen ones" because they have Messiah. And, in some messianic assemblies we attended in the past, some of the believing jewish brethern "lord" it over other believers who are not beleieving jews that they were the chosen ones , and so this to caused a division.

So I have seen plenty of boasting on both sides of the fence. How is the promises made to Jacob/Israel any different than the promises made to His father Isaac, and to his father Abraham? I dont see any difference.

A lot of people tell me well, we are "spiritual Israel" cause we worship the God of Israel in spirit and in truth. My answer to that is okay, but you must also be a flesh person in order to do that. God said that He would not "separate" the foreigner who has joined himself to the Lord from His people Israel.(Isa.56:3)

I am one of those "foriegners"(wonder why He didnt say gentile). I serve the God of Israel. I am now a part of His family, Israel, thru His Son Yeshua, who broke down the wall of partition. I am an Israelite. Though I may be adopted into this family, I am an inheriter of all that the God of Israel has.

Its all about who Governs us. I am called as Israel is called, to be a holy goy, holy nation, You know why the jews call some "rightous gentiles"? Because these "gentiles" have loved them and helped them but they are still "seperated" because they are "gentiles". Thats why Yeshua said that in Him there is no jew or greek, no seperating, One People, according to the promise, that promise being Yeshua. All of us, jew and non-jew alike, must recieve the spirit of adoption. (Rom 8:15,16,23; 9:4; Gal4:5; Eph 1:5)

I am sorry if my calling myself and Ephramite/Israelite offends anyone. This is just how I see myself, a returning wayward daughter, turning back to YHVH thru His Son Yeshua.

Shabbat Shalom

[Guest yod]

whew...there is a lot to cover!

The "gentiles" were first called christians at Antich? My scriptures says the "disciples" were first called christians at Antioch.

Antioch was the first predominantly gentile congregation in history. They didn't know what to call them!?!

A gentile who attended synagogue was called "Gerim" (God fearer). A "ger" didn't have to be circumcised to attend...but they were not fully accepted...hence the court of the gentiles at the Temple.

but these gentiles were coming to faith in the Messiah were something more...they were not to be called "unclean". They were equal in position before God. Your footnotes don't tell the whole story if they say this was a derogatory name. To some maybe it was...

As for the verse about the gentiles who did not pursue rightousness. why do you think they did not pursue rightousness. What does the very title "gentile" mean? Besides meaning not jewish that is. Every dictionary I have puts the word "heathen" with gentile, so what is a gentile?and, we are told many times in old and new test. not to learn the way of the heathen.

although the word "gentile" ALSO was used to mean heathen it doesn't necessarily mean that in every usage. Like the word "jew" can be positive or negative depending on the way it is used.

But that paragraph indicates to me that there IS a pride issue if you have a problem with being a gentile because the word gentile is ALWAYS USED when speaking of gentile believers in the New Testament.

You ignored that point, I notice.

Is it somehow more prestigous to say I am a jewish believer than to say I am a gentile believer?

I really don't see it as a matter of prestige....if you do then it's a pride issue. Elohim loves all the sons of Adam.

To me, it's a matter of factual biblical accuracy.

I am one of those "foriegners"(wonder why He didnt say gentile).

Because He said "gerim". The real question is "Why does God make a distinction at all?"

I serve the God of Israel. I am now a part of His family, Israel, thru His Son Yeshua, who broke down the wall of partition.

I am an Israelite. Though I may be adopted into this family, I am an inheriter of all that the God of Israel has.

Yes, we are all of the same family but even within each family there are differences of role. I have a sister and a brother. I could also have a half brother, a step sister, an adopted brother, and/or a wife who would all be considered the same family. None rank higher to our Father.

I've got no problem with people who see themselves as "Israelites" in the spirit because I understand what they mean by that....but the Ephramites are saying that they are Israel IN THE FLESH and there simply is no proof of it.

Why not drop it?

[Yahsway]

I see what your saying Yod. I have never looked at the term jew as ever being derogatory. To me, it just means they are from the tribe of Judah. Gentile on the other hand to me, means heathen, or maybe foreigner, but I no longer am foreign to God or heathen. And i look at all believers as being Israelits not gentiles.So, i dont feel i am being prideful because i look at all who are Gods Israelits.Not just myself.

The scriptures i use is the NKJV (Spirit filled life bible).Do youi think or could you suggest another one?I have the origional KJV, and the amplified, but Ive always like my spirit filled bible. (Guess thats cause i was A/G for so long).

Only the Father knows for certain who is a jew, gentile, in the flesh. We as believers, jew and non jew are called to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. So in essence we are all, jew and non jew Spiritual Israelits. I do not claim to be anything in the flesh as my flesh is corrupt and flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of God. Flesh and blood did not open Peters eyes to who the Messiah was but the Father in heaven only.

Isa.44:1-5 So I guess spiritually, I have the "surname" of Israel. Gal 4:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I guess the DNA questions kinda opened up a can of "worms", Ha! I was just interested in that. I guess because in Rev, God calls out and seals 12,000 from each tribe, so only He would know for sure who is who on a bloodline basis.Im not sure if even the jewish people know for sure which one of these tribes they belong to. I know Rev. also talks about the 12 gates that one must go thru, but im not up on escotology, so I dont know what this is really referring to.

Thanks Yod for talking with me. Im sorry for ever bringing this up now as i fear you think im some kinda of nut, ha! no really, You and Dad Ernie are probably much more learned than me, and I am teachable and willing to reason and listen and search out scripture. I will drop the subject for I want to live in peace with you guys. All reconciliation is in Yeshua, and He is the reason I live, and move, and have my being. So, lets lift Him up, not our doctrines or theologies and He will draw all men unto Himself! Amen and Amen.

Peace to Yod, and D.Ernie, Love you guys. cindy

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Yahsway,

I think Yod wrote a good post. Have you gave consideration to this verse:

Romans 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

The term gentile, more often than not, simply means "of the nations", meaning NOT of Israel. Abraham and Isaac were Hebrews - they were "of the nations", so shall you also consider them Heathen?

Israel as a "people group" did not exist until God changed Jacob's name to Israel. And as I understand it, but Yod may know better, Jews are a derivative of Judah, one of the sons of Israel.

So I must ask you, are you of the faith of Jacob? OR are you of the faith of Abraham?

I would also like you to consider your High Priest. Is He of the order of the Aaronic priesthood or the Levitical priesthood? No, but of the order of Melchizedek - a gentile. So then would you call Jesus a Heathen Priest? I don't think so.

Please give these things some consideration. God is the God of the WHOLE world, NOT just of the Jews or Israel.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[nebula]

Another way to look at it -

I don't care that I was naturally born a "wild branch."

What matters now is that I'm grafted into the Olive Tree and I 100% belong!

[Guest yod]

Amen Nebby!

Obviously God loves the gentiles......or He wouldn't have made so many of us.

And you know what Yahsway? I don't think you are crazy at all. It's hard to be upset with the 2-housers because every single one that I know I consider a friend. They are usually the humblest people you'll ever meet.

I guess it's the leadership who should know better than to go farther than what the Word actually says. I do believe the whole movement began because a few men (who will remain nameless) wanted to make a name for themselves...but that doesn't mean that everyone else is prideful.

I agree with more of your doctrine than you probably realize....it's just that one thing that really drives me bonkers!!

After that, I could be picky about every church or congregation but why do that when we have something so much greater in common?

[Yahsway]

Hi DE! Abraham and Isaac were called Hebrews(meaning to cross over)Abraham being called out of his fathers house which worshipped pagan gods of wood and stone.Being called to cross over to another land and lifestyle. Namely Gods way.

Israel as a people group did exist thru Jacobs seed although they were not born yet. The promise to Abraham was the same for Isaac and then to Jacob.According to Hebrews chapter 7, Melchizedek was without father, without mother, without genealogy. Yes, just like Yeshua! I am that I am. He was, and Is, and is to come.

Gal. 6:15-16 Paul does not mention 2 groups of christians. The connective and is emphatic and can be translated even. All true believers in Yeshua are The Israel of God.

God is the creator of the whole world and of mankind. But, i personally do not believe He is everyones Father. He doesnt have a personal relationship with the whole world. Although I pray that everyone in the whole world would be reconciled to Him thru His Son Yeshua, but we know that wont be so.Although He is calling a people out from among the gentiles to be a people for His name.

Shalom