The Christian and alcohol...freedom or bondage?

[enoob57]

God has with One Spirit moved us into unity with Him and one another and the belief that my weakness is not your problem and your weakness is not my problem will not go past The Lord of Glory into the eternal kingdom! So don't snuggle up to that belief for you will not be able to keep it... Man I normally do not address the words as I do the spirit behind them!

Not even close Steven.

What I said is, don't judge me by your weakness'. Which means, just because you have a problem with alcohol, don't automatically assume that eveybody else does. Don't apply your shortcomings to everyone else.

Man I normally do not address the words as I do the spirit behind them!

"As I do the spirit behind them". I didn't know you were a mind reader Steven.

Maybe you should start addressing the words Steven, because you are so far off the mark.

Read Bold Believer's post. He pretty much nailed it.

Your feet as well as my own will pass through the fire of God's Testing on the other side only His truth that remains...

God grants me the peace of waiting for His truth to be revealed in that time! Love Steven

[Guest man]

God has with One Spirit moved us into unity with Him and one another and the belief that my weakness is not your problem and your weakness is not my problem will not go past The Lord of Glory into the eternal kingdom! So don't snuggle up to that belief for you will not be able to keep it... Man I normally do not address the words as I do the spirit behind them!

Not even close Steven.

What I said is, don't judge me by your weakness'. Which means, just because you have a problem with alcohol, don't automatically assume that eveybody else does. Don't apply your shortcomings to everyone else.

Man I normally do not address the words as I do the spirit behind them!

"As I do the spirit behind them". I didn't know you were a mind reader Steven.

Maybe you should start addressing the words Steven, because you are so far off the mark.

Read Bold Believer's post. He pretty much nailed it.

Your feet as well as my own will pass through the fire of God's Testing on the other side only His truth that remains...

Yup.

God grants me the peace of waiting for His truth to be revealed in that time! Love Steven

That's good.

I would like to believe that since He granted it to you, He also granted it to us.

[Guest LadyC]

The Church has historically been legalistic on the issue.

not trying to be contentious, just trying to clear up my confusion.... WHAT church has been historically legalistic on the issue? usually when people say "the church" they're kinda referring, at least abstractly, to the roman catholic church. and i know they certainly don't have any legalism about drinking wine or beer!

I am Pentecostal, so I am saying Pentecostal (Holiness traditions), Baptist, etc. Mainline churches (Lutheran, Anglican, etc.) don't seem hung up on it.

oh, thanks! now, i can certainly see that in the baptists... and some pentacostal churches. i'm a member of a pentacostal church these days, but it's nothing like what i always thought of as "typical" pentacostal.

[MorningGlory]

Actually, they have found health benefits with one glass of red wine a day.

But I don't drink alcohol.

reason?

I can't stand the taste of it!

This is my reason for never drinking alcohol as well; it's just awful. I don't think it's a sin to have an occasion beer or glass of wine though, if one likes it.

[MorningGlory]

Jesus went to a wedding and enjoyed life with his earthly friends, ate food and drink wine, I wouldn't doubt for a moment that He even danced for joy with the bride.

Do you suppose that the Spirit that was in Paul in writing the letters of the New Testament was also the same Spirit as was Upon Christ? How is it then you have Him dancing with women outside of Scriptures influence of writing?

1 Cor 7:1-2

7 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

NKJV

We must bring every thought into captivity of God's Word... Love Steven

OK, I know this is off topic, but Steven is correct in considering your scenario an error.

In that time and culture, men and women did not mingle the way we do now. Men danced in a group with men, and women danced in a group with women. Men and women never danced together.

Correct.

[Bold Believer]

I've not seen this topic since I've come here, so I've decided to start it. Should Christian believers enjoy alcoholic beverages? For me, it's a case of I can if I like, but I rarely like. Maybe 2-3 times a year I will have a good quality beer. I never drink hard liquor at all. I haven't had wine in ages. I'm fortunate that my physical make-up allows me to handle alcohol. Not every person can. Not only that, not every Believer's conscience or teaching will allow them to partake of alcohol. I believe that alcohol is something that each Believer must decide for themselves by the Spirit's leading and also by what they know about themselves and their background.

It disturbs me that so many denominations have the audacity to teach that the wine Jesus drank was nothing more than grape juice. The Greek texts clearly state that Jesus drank oinos, which is wine. While this may seem insignificant, its significance becomes clear when such groups teach that drinking of alcohol is a sin. They inadvertently teach that the Son of God was a sinner. If what Jesus drank was grape juice, then why would the religious authorities accuse Him of being a winebibber (Gr: oinopotes, someone given to wine, a wino)? You can't get crocked on grape juice.

Alcohol can be used responsibly and sensibly, contrary to much evangelical teaching. Just because a Believer has the occasional drink, that doesn't mean that they will become an alcoholic, nor does it make such a person "a sinner". There IS freedom in Christ. What WE have to do is use that freedom to uplift Christ. Likewise, not every unbeliever who drinks alcohol is wicked. It becomes wicked and sinful when one abuses alcohol by overindulgence. Christians need to realize this distinction when dealing with people who enjoy alcohol on occasion, whether they be Believers or unbelievers.

What is the difference? Just drink water...

what about offense to others? 1 Cor 10:23-33

What is a heart that desires minimum commit for sake of temporary pleasures...? One must ask is that what the Lord did when He laid aside being God to come down and become Man and Die a cruel death

-so we might escape hell- ! His Life to be installed in us as witness of Him... as to reflect His sacrifice of Life and Duty to the Father for us. Him, now in us, to say how close can I get to the pleasure of flesh but still ..... This spirit must be investigated according to Scripture whether it be of Spiritual Godliness or spirit of ungodliness.... Love Steven

Well Steven, the difference is between freedom and bondage to man-made religious laws. Not every pleasure of the flesh is sin you know. Jesus went to a wedding and enjoyed life with his earthly friends, ate food and drink wine, I wouldn't doubt for a moment that He even danced for joy with the bride. Was Jesus a sinner? You seem to illustrate (however unintentionally) my initial post. Christians who, however well-intentioned, look at any unbeliever who drinks as an evil and wicked person and any Believer who thinks it's not a sin to drink as less of a Christian. If the Lord leads you not to consume alcohol for whatever reason, that is all well and good. Knowing that you feel that way, I'd never drink when you were around (1 Cor 10) because it might cause you to stumble.

Now, let's say that you dearly love to eat meat, but 'Joe' thinks it's a sin to eat meat. Obviously you would never eat meat around Joe, but...what about when Joe ISN'T around? Would you lustily chow down on a big honking hamburger? Of course, because Joe's not there and what Joe doesn't see you do can't make him stumble. So then, substituting alcohol for meat, if my faith allows me a beer now and then when you're not around, does that make me a sinner? No. Nor does it make that alcohol enjoying unbeliever a sinner either (unless he or she is a slave to alcohol).

Do you suppose that the Spirit that was in Paul in writing the letters of the New Testament was also the same Spirit as was Upon Christ? How is it then you have Him dancing with women outside of Scriptures influence of writing?

1 Cor 7:1-2

7 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

NKJV

We must bring every thought into captivity of God's Word... Love Steven

You don't know much about the Middle East and its customs, DO you Steven? Dancing would merely have been to move around in a circle, not dancing as we know it in Western terms. Also, I wrote that I wouldn't doubt it. That doesn't mean that it did happen, only that I see the possibility there. Christ brought freedom, not bondage to the Law, or to man made religion. If your faith doesn't permit you alcohol, all well and good, but don't impose your conscience on other people.

[MorningGlory]

You don't know much about the Middle East and its customs, DO you Steven? Dancing would merely have been to move around in a circle, not dancing as we know it in Western terms. Also, I wrote that I wouldn't doubt it. That doesn't mean that it did happen, only that I see the possibility there. Christ brought freedom, not bondage to the Law, or to man made religion. If your faith doesn't permit you alcohol, all well and good, but don't impose your conscience on other people.

The following is from a scholarly study on life in ancient Israel......from http:\\truelightministries.org

4. Usually it was the women who danced. This was not always the case in the Old Testament, but it was usually so. It was so as Saul and David returned from battle after Goliath was slain, as we read in 1 Samuel 18. It was so as Jephthah returned from victory over the Ammonites, as we read in Judges 11. It was so after the Red Sea crossing, as we read from Exodus 15. And it was the women who danced at the festival of Shiloh, as we read from Judges 21.

5. Men occasionally danced. David danced before the ark, as we read in 1 Chronicles 15. The prophets of the false god Baal danced, as we read in 1 Kings 18. Those two instances are certain. Also, it might be reasonably inferred that men were among the Israelite dancers at Mount Sinai. The Bible says,

[Isaiah 6:8]

I like what C.S Lewis says.

Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words that has changed its meaning. It now usually means

teetotalism. But in the days when the second Cardinal virtue was christened "Temperance," it meant

nothing of the sort. Temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not

abstaining, but going the right length and no further.

It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotallers; Mohammedanism, not Christianity,

is the teetotal religion. Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a

particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at

all without drinking too much, or because he wants to give the money to the poor, or because he is

with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But

the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not

condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying.

One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without

wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit

to give up all sorts of things for special reasons

[godrulz]

I Cor. 7:1 is not Pauline revelatory truth. I Cor. is issue literature. The Cor. were wrongly saying that it is good to not touch a woman (sexual/marital issues). Paul then corrects their wrong thinking with balanced teaching on ministry, marriage, sexuality. We see the same thing in other places (all things are lawful....no, they are not). Some translations rightly put the Cor. sayings in quotes and then Paul's inspired response.

Loving obedience with right motive is the key, not legalism or license.

[OneLight]

Listen to, and obey, His Spirit in you. He will never lead you down the wrong road.