About divorce...

[missmuffet]

Walk circumspectly they say....especially around women who seek to provoke you

Ladies,  I appreciate you.  I agree with you concerning the seemingly insurmountable task of a poligamous man.  I am still growing in the Lord and learning about our God and how life works in light of who he is.

1 Timothy 3 speaks about what kind of men ought to rule over Gods house.  Nevermind that it says he need be a man of one wife (that gives weight to the argument that more than one would be troublesome but there is already a proof text for that for Paul says plainly that people who get married will have trouble in the flesh) but I wish to draw your attention to the fact that the text reveals that it is entirely possible for a man to lead a wife and children to be obedient.  This fact alone convicted me beyond belief.  I was a horrible leader, for my wife was terrible and my children obnoxious.  Even if God would to look for a man to give another wife to it would not be me.

I spent much time in prayer and study seeking the answer to my lack of ability to lead.  Over time I found answers in our complete guide to life called The Holy Bible!  I began to employ what I found slowly and watched as my wife turned toward obedience and my children as well.  The bible is an amazing guide for certain.  God who has begun a good work in me is still finishing it. 

I am not an advocate of poligamy.  Please understand that but I am unconvinced that God prohibits or condemns it in and of itself.  In a fallen world there is a time for everything.  Marriage is a product of the fall and will be done away with in the resurrection.  Though I do not advocate poligamy, I believe there may be circumstances that warrant its use just as there are circumastances that warrant capitol punishment.  Capital punishment, like marriage, need never be until something happened that brought about a need.  

I reserve the right to be wrong in this but it is where my study has led me and the more people challenge the position the more carved out in stone it becomes for me.  My premise is that there is no way that some things like the very Son of God dying ought to happen but there are circumastances that warrant even the most unthinkable solutions.

May God alone decide what is best.

Thank you Morning Glory for the provocation!  

Do you believe this Gary? bold and underlined.

I would like to vote here.I am confused by the statement "Marriage is a product of the fall". I do believe that there is not marriage in heaven.It sounds like Gary has a very negative view of marriage?

There is to be the greatest wedding of all - Christ and His Church (bride)... that's what I'm getting my heart spiffied up for

I am excited for that wedding as well enoob.

[Ezra]

Marriage is a product of the fall and will be done away with in the resurrection.

Gary,

Others have already shown you (with supporting Scripture) that this is false doctrine Yet you continue to cling to your false beliefs.  That does not bode well.

Yes, I believe marriage to be part of the fall to be done away with in the ressurection.  I believe what God said about marriage was prophetic in nature.

When we are shown Scripture that refutes our false notions, the proper response is to abandon our error and believe the Word of God.  If we do not do so, we will go into more error. To say that you "reserve the right to be wrong" is to say "I will persist in my errors".

When God said to mankind "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it" (Gen 1:28) that was said AT THE TIME OF CREATION.  How else would mankind be fruitful and multiply other than through marriage and procreation?  Therefore God personally performed the first marriage on earth BEFORE THE FALL.

There are a lot of false doctrines floating around that try to condemn human sexuality as evil and sinful and connected with the Fall, but the final word is with God, therefore you should graciously acknowledge your error and move on.  You have mentioned a few times that you are learning, so please learn the truth about human marriage, which prefigured the Marriage of the Lamb, WHICH IS AN ETERNAL UNION.

[gdemoss]

Marriage is a product of the fall and will be done away with in the resurrection.

Gary,

Others have already shown you (with supporting Scripture) that this is false doctrine Yet you continue to cling to your false beliefs.  That does not bode well.

Yes, I believe marriage to be part of the fall to be done away with in the ressurection.  I believe what God said about marriage was prophetic in nature.

When we are shown Scripture that refutes our false notions, the proper response is to abandon our error and believe the Word of God.  If we do not do so, we will go into more error. To say that you "reserve the right to be wrong" is to say "I will persist in my errors".

When God said to mankind "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it" (Gen 1:28) that was said AT THE TIME OF CREATION.  How else would mankind be fruitful and multiply other than through marriage and procreation?  Therefore God personally performed the first marriage on earth BEFORE THE FALL.

There are a lot of false doctrines floating around that try to condemn human sexuality as evil and sinful and connected with the Fall, but the final word is with God, therefore you should graciously acknowledge your error and move on.  You have mentioned a few times that you are learning, so please learn the truth about human marriage, which prefigured the Marriage of the Lamb, WHICH IS AN ETERNAL UNION.

Ezra, thank you for your kind approach to admonishing me to release that which you believe people have clearly demonstrated in scripture.  I have yet to be convinced that this is truth and from your perspective I am persisting in error.  Of course, if you are wrong then it is you who persists in error.  I am still learning and admit to being a slow student.  Thank you for being patient with me.  Please hear me further.

I hold to a six day creation.

I hold to genesis 2 & 3 being an exploded view of day six.  

Therefore, I hold to a view that sin happened during creation else I have to believe that man and woman were created on day six and this other eve is a new creation afterward.

The reason I can have such a position and still understand why it was all 'very good' though sin had been exposed is that I believe God was delighting himself in the end product rather than the present condition.  For he sees the end from the beginning.  God knew that the eventual end of all that had been created in six days would be his Eternal Kingdom purged of all that offends from the very day he finished his work and rested.

What is your view?  Did they fall on day six and get sent out into the world to subdue it or do you hold to the position that that was some other woman?  Or some other thing I know not yet is a possible interpretation?

Thank you for kindly seeking to understand where I am coming from.  I believe God has sanctified the marriage bed as scripture has said.  It is God who makes clean that which is unclean as it is written.  

Also, Jesus says marriage will be done away with in the resurrection no?  He was correcting the Pharisees if I remember right.

And Stephen!  Thank you for the cud to chew on my friend.

[thereselittleflower]

Marriage is a product of the fall and will be done away with in the resurrection.

Gary,

Others have already shown you (with supporting Scripture) that this is false doctrine Yet you continue to cling to your false beliefs.  That does not bode well.

Yes, I believe marriage to be part of the fall to be done away with in the ressurection.  I believe what God said about marriage was prophetic in nature.

When we are shown Scripture that refutes our false notions, the proper response is to abandon our error and believe the Word of God.  If we do not do so, we will go into more error. To say that you "reserve the right to be wrong" is to say "I will persist in my errors".

When God said to mankind "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it" (Gen 1:28) that was said AT THE TIME OF CREATION.  How else would mankind be fruitful and multiply other than through marriage and procreation?  Therefore God personally performed the first marriage on earth BEFORE THE FALL.

There are a lot of false doctrines floating around that try to condemn human sexuality as evil and sinful and connected with the Fall, but the final word is with God, therefore you should graciously acknowledge your error and move on.  You have mentioned a few times that you are learning, so please learn the truth about human marriage, which prefigured the Marriage of the Lamb, WHICH IS AN ETERNAL UNION.

Ezra, thank you for your kind approach to admonishing me to release that which you believe people have clearly demonstrated in scripture.  I have yet to be convinced that this is truth and from your perspective I am persisting in error.  Of course, if you are wrong then it is you who persists in error.  I am still learning and admit to being a slow student.  Thank you for being patient with me.  Please hear me further.

I hold to a six day creation.

I hold to genesis 2 & 3 being an exploded view of day six.  

Therefore, I hold to a view that sin happened during creation else I have to believe that man and woman were created on day six and this other eve is a new creation afterward.

The reason I can have such a position and still understand why it was all 'very good' though sin had been exposed is that I believe God was delighting himself in the end product rather than the present condition.  For he sees the end from the beginning.  God knew that the eventual end of all that had been created in six days would be his Eternal Kingdom purged of all that offends from the very day he finished his work and rested.

What is your view?  Did they fall on day six and get sent out into the world to subdue it or do you hold to the position that that was some other woman?  Or some other thing I know not yet is a possible interpretation?

Thank you for kindly seeking to understand where I am coming from.  I believe God has sanctified the marriage bed as scripture has said.  It is God who makes clean that which is unclean as it is written.  

Also, Jesus says marriage will be done away with in the resurrection no?  He was correcting the Pharisees if I remember right.

And Stephen!  Thank you for the cud to chew on my friend.

So  you're saying that when the scriptures say God saw it was good this "good" that God saw included sin?

Genesis 1:31

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I think somewhere you have gone off track with your understanding of scripture and creation.   

All was good before God rested on the 7th day.   It was after the 7th day that God created Eve.  It was after God created Eve that satan tempted her, Adam followed her disobedience, and sin entered the world and man fell.

I have no idea how you get that sin entered the world DURING creation when scripture expressly tells us when sin entered the world well after creation.

 

 

 

 

[enoob57]

gdemoss

 

 Also, Jesus says marriage will be done away with in the resurrection no?  He was correcting the Pharisees if I remember right.

Can you please provide me scripture for this....I believe your view is in error

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
KJV
 

[enoob57]

Ummm...don't you think that one wife is enough? 

To be perfectly honest even the one wife may be to much  

[Ezra]

I hold to a six day creation.

I hold to genesis 2 & 3 being an exploded view of day six.

Gary,

Genesis 1 is an overview of creation, whereas Genesis 2 pertains to details regarding Adam and Eve, their creation, their stewardship and their marriage. Since the Ten Commandments confirm that everything was created within six days, Eve was created on the same day as Adam (not on the 7th day as Therese has mistakenly surmised, since God RESTED from all His creative works on the 7th day). 

Where you have gone wrong is to assume that Genesis chapter 3 is simply a continuation of the creation account.  That is incorrect.  We are not told how long it was before the Fall occurred, but it looks like it happened very soon after creation.  But the marriage of Adam and Eve was a creation event, since it goes back to Gen 1:27 "male AND FEMALE created He them".

[enoob57]

gdemoss

 

 Also, Jesus says marriage will be done away with in the resurrection no?  He was correcting the Pharisees if I remember right.

Can you please provide me scripture for this....I believe your view is in error

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
KJV
 

is that the script?  You do realise what the context of this script is?

 That passage Jesus is not discussing conditions in the new heavens and earth but, rather, refutes the Sadducees' wrong view of no life after death....you seem to be making the same mistake as they are

You cannot get to the new heaven and earth but by the resurrection... thus in the resurrection it is a word placement requiring the period after death!
Common sense would dictate that we are certainly not like the angels right now! So context bringing it into the narrative 'as the angels' should bring us
into same understanding... unless you are bent to  keep that which you already believe!  Love, Steven

[missmuffet]

Ummm...don't you think that one wife is enough? 

To be perfectly honest even the one wife may be to much  

Ummm...don't you think that one wife is enough? 

To be perfectly honest even the one wife may be to much  

Precisely 

[enoob57]

Ummm...don't you think that one wife is enough? 

To be perfectly honest even the one wife may be to much  

 

Ummm...don't you think that one wife is enough? 

To be perfectly honest even the one wife may be to much  

Precisely 

somehow I knew that would tickle your gizzard