Help...

[johnP]

Hello Trinity.

I don't know if you want this stuff but I will put it up anyway, maybe it will be useful to others if not for you.

I catch the the J.w's on the doorstep sometimes but they have me marked and never return visit. I don't care though because I've got a nice couple of Mormons to be getting on with.

Proof texts are fine but you need their response as well. They sometimes, not often I must admit, know the proof texts and have ready answers.

Take;

Isa 9:6 The Mighty God often brings the response, 'But not the Almighty God'.

They will accept the notion that there is more than one God, after all the bible calls some gods.

If you can find a place where the Almighty seems to take a demotion then you have them;

Isa 10:21 Says that Almighty God is also called the Mighty God. So they really do have two Mighty Gods.

One of their favourite proof texts is found at Proverbs 8:22. "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;

Wisdom they say is Jesus Christ. A very odd thing cause this is one of the only places they get anything right!

They think this proves their point and Jesus was in fact created first. I must admit that it wobbled me quite badly when I first became a Christian but I got me own back on them since.

Wisdom is female. I know that they have used a nondescript word mainly in Proverbs but they have left a 'She' in at least one verse. If you want I can dig around and find their bible and look it up for you.

Since Jesus is Wisdom and since Wisdom is Female then God must have male and female in Him. Anyway, they usually want to get off this point when you show them this.

John 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jw's say that it was the Jews that was saying this but this is an error. John is saying that Jesus made Himself equal to God.

One more.

John 10:33-39.

10:33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

There is no doubt that the Jews knew what Jesus was saying.

This is the bit they concentrate on.

10:34-38 Jesus is saying that others were called the sons of God why do you want to kill me for claiming the same thing. You did not kill those others.

But they always miss the next verse.

If Jesus was just claiming the same honour as those other saints the Jews would not have tried to seize Him again. They were legalistic and would only stone those that, in their opinion, deserved stoning.

johnp

[Scudbuddy]

Can you all help me find Verses that say Jesus is God?

"

Jesus is mentioned over 500 times in the OT alone. Whenever you see the word "Salvation", you are actually seeing the word "Yeshua."

So when you see the verse "The Lord is my Salvation.", you are actually seeing "The Lord is my Yeshua!"

[AnotherTraveler]

Can you all help me find Verses that say Jesus is God?

(Isa 9:6 KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

(Mat 1:20 KJV) But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

(Mat 1:21 KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

(Mat 1:22 KJV) Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

(Mat 1:23 KJV) Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

These help?

[other one]

Can you all help me find Verses that say Jesus is God?

depends on what you mean by the word God. Jesus is/was/always be diety. He is not the Father never was, nor never will be.

[Green Darner]

Here are my favorite verses that speak of Jesus as our Creator:

John 1:3

3 All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. (KJV)

Col 1:16-17

16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:

17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. (KJV)

Edited October 5, 2004 by Green Darner

[jamie]

Can you all help me find Verses that say Jesus is God?

depends on what you mean by the word God. Jesus is/was/always be diety. He is not the Father never was, nor never will be.

[SharingTheGoodNews]

One of the Touchiest Topics around the globe.

You may want to get a look at these scriptures from the Darby Translation.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?S...ty+god&x=18&y=5

Other translations also available for consideration. Although Christ is mentioned as "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty

[johnP]

Hello SharingTheGoodNews.

The "Mighty God" in Isaiah 9:6 is the same Mighty God in Isa 10:21 isn't He? We may have two of everything soon. The Everlasting Father. "My Lord and my God!" Thomas said to him, John 20:28.

...firstborn of all creation;...

Firstborn was a title given, funnily enough, to the firstborn child. If that child was a girl and a brother came along later the title of firstborn was transferred to the boy. He would become firstborn even though he was not the first child.

Firstborn means preeminent. The most important. ...`This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son... Ex 4:22. Israel was never the first created nation but it is firstborn.

1 Corinthians 15 24 Then the end, when he gives up the kingdom to him [who is] God and Father; when he shall have annulled all rule and all authority and power.

This is a difficult passage to deal with quickly. There is a subordination in the Godhead. This subordination has to with offices that are held and has nothing to do with the 'nature' of God.

The same goes for, "...for the Father is greater than I."

This is not a comparison of the nature of Christ and the Father but is a comparison between the position Jesus was in, as a man, and the position that the Father is in where He is. Greater does not mean better.

HEB 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father" ?

John knew what Jesus was saying.

John 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jews knew what Jesus was saying and condemned Him to death for it.

John 10:33-39. "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." Matt 14:64 "You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?" They all condemned him as worthy of death.

Jesus has and will always be a seperate being from his Father.

God is One.

If Jesus was not God He could not have raised Himself from the grave.

johnp.

[SharingTheGoodNews]

Hello JohnP.

[johnP]

Hello SharingTheGoodNews. Good to meet you.

I must say your post requires much attention. I will give a fuller response tomorrow when I have decoded it.

Acts 3

15"You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this."

I take that to mean God raised Him from the dead. How do you handle;

JN 2:18 Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?"

JN 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

JN 2:20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

How could He rise Himself if He is not God?

johnp.