nebula Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I go to an Episcopal Church where the higher ups have some opinions that I disagree with (for example, condoning homosexual practice and condoning abortion). However, I do not see these things preached from the pulpit. I still feel the presence of God moving during the weekly Sunday service. I mean, how can the Spirit not be present when the Word is read (we read four Biblical passages every week) and the sacraments are administered (we do weekly Communion, after the example of the early church)? The fact is, the Episcopal Church is still preaching the Gospel message of salvation through Christ, and is still feeding the hungry, caring for the orphan, etc. However I may disagree with some of the clergy, I cannot deny that I see the Spirit of God still moving among the laity as well as some of the faithful clergy. While not having experienced it firsthand, I am sure the same can be said of the Presbytyrian and Methodist churches. We are saved by grace through faith. Nowhere does the Bible say we are saved by which denomination we go to. Need to be careful, though. Rev. 2-3 show that Jesus can be in our midst while our congregations are sinning against Him. But, He is counting a reckoning if there is lack of repentance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 I go to an Episcopal Church where the higher ups have some opinions that I disagree with (for example, condoning homosexual practice and condoning abortion). However, I do not see these things preached from the pulpit. I still feel the presence of God moving during the weekly Sunday service. I mean, how can the Spirit not be present when the Word is read (we read four Biblical passages every week) and the sacraments are administered (we do weekly Communion, after the example of the early church)? The fact is, the Episcopal Church is still preaching the Gospel message of salvation through Christ, and is still feeding the hungry, caring for the orphan, etc. However I may disagree with some of the clergy, I cannot deny that I see the Spirit of God still moving among the laity as well as some of the faithful clergy. While not having experienced it firsthand, I am sure the same can be said of the Presbytyrian and Methodist churches. We are saved by grace through faith. Nowhere does the Bible say we are saved by which denomination we go to. Need to be careful, though. Rev. 2-3 show that Jesus can be in our midst while our congregations are sinning against Him. But, He is counting a reckoning if there is lack of repentance. Neb, I have seen some local churches that outwardly appear to be the most godly and righteous of all churches yet to hear what is going on behind the closed doors of the membership one would run! Yet to those who are leaving their church to join this one they are being lead down the emergent path and have no clue. Do not judge a denomination by what is in the news and tar all the churches of that denomination with the same brush. That is what you are doing.I have been absolutely stunned by what is going on in the church which I mention above. NEVER would I expect it. They are drawing new members but sadly into the lost. Those in the know and truly born again are leaving or staying and withdrawing donations. Just because of the name of the denomination do not judge them all the same way. You are TOTALLY WRONG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.88 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think you may have misunderstood what Neb said, littlelamb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Rev. 2-3 show that Jesus can be in our midst while our congregations are sinning against Him. But, He is counting a reckoning if there is lack of repentance. Do not judge a denomination by what is in the news and tar all the churches of that denomination with the same brush. Lambs, I didn't say "denomination", did I? I said, "congregations." Do you understand the difference in what I said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 Rev. 2-3 show that Jesus can be in our midst while our congregations are sinning against Him. But, He is counting a reckoning if there is lack of repentance. Do not judge a denomination by what is in the news and tar all the churches of that denomination with the same brush. Lambs, I didn't say "denomination", did I? I said, "congregations." Do you understand the difference in what I said? I fully do but he mentioned Episcopal and it was as if he was in the wrong for going to that denomination not individual church of that denomination. Not all churches of a certain denomination are the same or have ministers who agree with the leading of the leadership. Even the congregation of a denomination may disagree and though their minister may they can decide the direction of the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I fully do but he mentioned Episcopal and it was as if he was in the wrong for going to that denomination not individual church of that denomination. Not all churches of a certain denomination are the same or have ministers who agree with the leading of the leadership. Even the congregation of a denomination may disagree and though their minister may they can decide the direction of the church. My point was that we shouldn't think that "feeling the presence of God" means Gods approval in all things the church does and preaches. What if you heard people saying that they felt the presence of God at this church you mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 Neb, I do apologize in advance if I am wrong, but there are time that you seem to belittle the individual and put them down if they do not agree with your comments. I do not believe that we - and i generalize - are not uneducated or not understanding of your comments. I am certain that we are. But your tone takes on a superior attitude that makes one not want to continue with the conversation in the post. As I said if I am wrong forgive me but I do know the difference between congregation and denomination and I took that as a put down that was not called for - at least your arrogant tone was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 I fully do but he mentioned Episcopal and it was as if he was in the wrong for going to that denomination not individual church of that denomination. Not all churches of a certain denomination are the same or have ministers who agree with the leading of the leadership. Even the congregation of a denomination may disagree and though their minister may they can decide the direction of the church. My point was that we shouldn't think that "feeling the presence of God" means Gods approval in all things the church does and preaches. What if you heard people saying that they felt the presence of God at this church you mentioned? What if the minister was the servant of God that the congregation knows that he is and they DO feel the presence of God. Who am I to judge that they do not? <div>With regard to the church that I mentioned it is going emergent and fully so. Those who do feel the presence or understand the direction are leaving and going to other churches. Those who are new like the drums and the new music and like the minister making all the decisions for them . The fact that they do not know him and his flagrant lies is something that the newcomers or some who refuse to accept this are splitting their own families over the direction of the church. Is there a presence of God ? NO how could there be? and I have heard no one mention that there is. Yet it is of a denomination of which you would be stunned.</div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Neb, I do apologize in advance if I am wrong, but there are time that you seem to belittle the individual and put them down if they do not agree with your comments. I do not believe that we - and i generalize - are not educated or understanding of your comments. I am certain that we are. But your tone takes on a superior attitude that makes one not want to continue with the conversation in the post. As I said if I am wrong forgive me but I do know the difference between congregation and denomination and I took that as a put down that was not called for - at least your arrogant tone was not. I hate this not being able to communicate with body language. I did not mean to put you down, I apologize for it coming out that way. When I read your response, I saw the charge that I was attacking the denomination, and that is not what I was focusing on. This puzzled me. My question was expressing confusion, not meaning to belittle you in anyway. I apologize for making you feel belittled. My natural state of communication is to be blunt. I try to speak more "diplomatically" (so to speak), but it is difficult for me to find the words to express such. Word-crafting is not a gift I have. (Not justifying, just trying explain my situation - really, if you have ideas for how I can come across less arrogant, I'm all ears, because this frustrates me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlelambseativy Posted May 12, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 230 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,941 Content Per Day: 0.94 Reputation: 2,003 Days Won: 14 Joined: 02/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2011 Neb, I do apologize in advance if I am wrong, but there are time that you seem to belittle the individual and put them down if they do not agree with your comments. I do not believe that we - and i generalize - are not educated or understanding of your comments. I am certain that we are. But your tone takes on a superior attitude that makes one not want to continue with the conversation in the post. As I said if I am wrong forgive me but I do know the difference between congregation and denomination and I took that as a put down that was not called for - at least your arrogant tone was not. I hate this not being able to communicate with body language. I did not mean to put you down, I apologize for it coming out that way. When I read your response, I saw the charge that I was attacking the denomination, and that is not what I was focusing on. This puzzled me. My question was expressing confusion, not meaning to belittle you in anyway. I apologize for making you feel belittled. My natural state of communication is to be blunt. I try to speak more "diplomatically" (so to speak), but it is difficult for me to find the words to express such. Word-crafting is not a gift I have. (Not justifying, just trying explain my situation - really, if you have ideas for how I can come across less arrogant, I'm all ears, because this frustrates me.) Apology fully accepted. Thank you Neb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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