Free Grace Theology Vs. Lordship Salvation

[Byron A]

Byron, do you see sanctification as optional? All truly saved Christians will go on to higher and higher degrees of sanctification.

GBU

It depends. Optional for what?

For salvation, I do see it as optional. We are saved by faith, not of works, lest any man should boast.

For a correct relationship with God here on this Earth, however, I do not think it is optional. In other words, in order to please God and grow spiritually, we must be obedient to the Spirit and follow its lead in the way of Sanctification.

Here is a good article that explores this topic:

http://www.faithalone.org/news/y1993/93nov2.html

[Byron A]

Wow, the message went clear over your head.

In the real account, what did Jesus tell the rich young he must do?

Lets examine the real accounts, shall we?

In Matthew's Gospel (Matthew 19:16, KJV), Jesus is asked, "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

In the Mark version (Mark 10:17, KJV), Jesus is asked, "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" In Luke's version (Luke 18:18 KJV), it is the same.

In all three instances, the man is asking what he can do to be saved. As we all know, however, this is impossible. By our own merits we cannot be saved. As Isaiah said, our works are like menstrual rags. They are so filthy, unable of having any kind of redeeming value.

Jesus responds by keeping with his question. What can the young man do to merit his own salvation? We all know the answer to that, too, don't we? We must live a perfect and sinless life by never having disobeyed a single one of God's commandments. This is what Jesus said, isn't it? He gave a list of actions that the man must do and obey.

Of course, we all know it is impossible to perfectly obey all of God's commandments. So this route of earning salvation is impossible. Anyone who comes to the alter wondering how they can earn their own salvation is doomed to the same result, one of frustration when they realize that this route to salvation is impossible. Until they have a change of mind (that is what repentance means) and realize that all the work has been done by Christ for our salvation already and we need to only accept it on faith, salvation is not possible for such people.

[Byron A]

How come no one has voted in the poll? I am really curious about the break down of percentages of everyone's opinion.

[enoob57]

How come no one has voted in the poll? I am really curious about the break down of percentages of everyone's opinion.

I could not pay the tax...

[Byron A]

How come no one has voted in the poll? I am really curious about the break down of percentages of everyone's opinion.

I could not pay the tax...

I waved the tax for this particular poll. So go right ahead and vote. Its free for a limited time only!

[OneLight]

Try defining your choices instead of pointing to Wikipedia. Wikipedia did such a lousy job that I am still confused as to how you see each choice.

[Byron A]

Try defining your choices instead of pointing to Wikipedia. Wikipedia did such a lousy job that I am still confused as to how you see each choice.

I hope I can do justice to each term. Obviously I am a Free Grace proponent, so I may not be able to do Lordship Salvation much justice. But I will try.

Free Grace Theology teaches that grace is free. Once accepted through faith, nothing can be done to lose it. Salvation is eternal. One's works, before during or after salvation, has no bearing upon one's salvation. However, sanctification is required in order to have a fruitful relationship with God in this life, as well as to earn rewards in the Eternal Kingdom. Remember Jesus saying, "Store up treasures for yourself in heaven"?

Lordship Salvation teaches that in order to be saved, one must submit their life to the authority of Christ. In other words, obedience is required for Salvation.

Personally, I believe that Lordship Salvation adds a requirement to salvation that the Bible does not, and that is good works. Of course, good works should be strived for. But I believe that salvation is not dependent upon it. Instead, we earn rewards for our obedience to God.

[OneLight]

I am afraid this topic is much deeper then your explanations. If your goal is to bring out the different ideas, then the discussion is worthwhile, but if we are to choose between one or the other, your explanations leaves me with no other choice but to not choose either.

From what you say, nobody can ever choose to turn from Christ after accepting Him as their Savior. On the other hand, when Christ said "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." is irrelevant. The phrase "does the will" requires someone to do something. Can you see how this goes much deeper then your choices?

[nebula]

Wow, the message went clear over your head.

In the real account, what did Jesus tell the rich young he must do?

Lets examine the real accounts, shall we?

In Matthew's Gospel (Matthew 19:16, KJV), Jesus is asked, "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

In the Mark version (Mark 10:17, KJV), Jesus is asked, "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" In Luke's version (Luke 18:18 KJV), it is the same.

In all three instances, the man is asking what he can do to be saved. As we all know, however, this is impossible. By our own merits we cannot be saved. As Isaiah said, our works are like menstrual rags. They are so filthy, unable of having any kind of redeeming value.

Jesus responds by keeping with his question. What can the young man do to merit his own salvation? We all know the answer to that, too, don't we? We must live a perfect and sinless life by never having disobeyed a single one of God's commandments. This is what Jesus said, isn't it? He gave a list of actions that the man must do and obey.

Of course, we all know it is impossible to perfectly obey all of God's commandments. So this route of earning salvation is impossible. Anyone who comes to the alter wondering how they can earn their own salvation is doomed to the same result, one of frustration when they realize that this route to salvation is impossible. Until they have a change of mind (that is what repentance means) and realize that all the work has been done by Christ for our salvation already and we need to only accept it on faith, salvation is not possible for such people.

Egads! No wonder the message went over your head.

Let us look at the full account. I'll use Matthew's version:

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?"

17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

18 He said to Him, "Which ones?"

Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "

20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?"

21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

You see, it shows from the response he gave that he knew his obedience wasn't cutting it.

Then it shows that Jesus did not leave him with the Commandments, but instructed him on what he really needed to do.

The story I gave is how Jesus would have responded via free grace theology (as I understand the argument). But what Jesus actually responded with was a call to lay down his old life and take up a new life of becoming a disciple of Jesus (that's what, "Follow Me," means).

[nebula]

Free Grace Theology teaches that grace is free. Once accepted through faith, nothing can be done to lose it. Salvation is eternal. One's works, before during or after salvation, has no bearing upon one's salvation. However, sanctification is required in order to have a fruitful relationship with God in this life, as well as to earn rewards in the Eternal Kingdom. Remember Jesus saying, "Store up treasures for yourself in heaven"?

<snip>

Personally, I believe that Lordship Salvation adds a requirement to salvation that the Bible does not, and that is good works. Of course, good works should be strived for. But I believe that salvation is not dependent upon it. Instead, we earn rewards for our obedience to God.

How do you handle such verses as:

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(Acts 2)

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. (Matthew 16:24)

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved ; (Romans 10:9)