Can you loose your salvation once you are given it? Can you surrender

[Fez]

I just want to remind you guys that this thread was based on an article I wrote for the Examiner. In this article, I do argue that it is not possible to lose your salvation but sin has its own set of consequences. If you are interested, please check it out. It might either give you a new perspective or something to argue.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity-in-west-palm-beach/dear-fearful-is-it-possible-to-loose-your-salvation-read-on

Agreed!

"We are punished by our sins, not for them"

"Punished by our sins"........Really? You honestly believe that?

Yes in a roundabout way. I am not alluding to scripture here. Rob a bank (sin right?), you will end up being shot, or in prision. Punished by your sin. Drink too much, lose control, drive your car, kill another driver, end up in prison. Punished by your sin.

if you get my drift....

[luke22ministries]

Oak,

First, may God bless you and bring you through your surgery to echo his glory. Our prayers will be with you. I have found in the past, that sometimes when I post scripture, after re-reading the context and hermonetics of it, I understand a different meaning. I do not believe that Jesus was 'rebuking' believers by talking about drinking his blood and eating his flesh. He was giving a sermon, to many who has come from all over, simply to partake of the free food and the healing Jesus was offering. These people were not believers, they were opportunist. They came for what Jesus could give them, without a hint of question about how they would serve God.

Scripture is VERY specific about what you MUST do to be saved. You MUST confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you MUST believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. Our question here is: Can people who have truely believed in Jesus in the manner described but yet backsliding or struggling or resisting his counsel and chastisement actually give up salvation? Because you come for the free food or you come for the healing or you come for the power it does not make you a believer. Unless you have confessed and believed you are not saved. But when you ARE saved, your salvation was not and never will be based on your own act. It is based on God's grace. Paul is specific. God gives you this grace so that you can never boast that you saved yourself. You must always give the glory to God for your salvation. In the same way, you cannot unearn what you never EARNED in the first place.

We can bring up letters to churches in Revelations and eating of the flesh and drinking of the blood but most of these were warnings to those who were never saved or professed to be saved and never accepted Christ. Some of these churches in Revelations even worshiped Paul and Peter! Clearly, this would bring about a question of being saved in the first place. How can you (according to romans 10:9) confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord if you believe that Paul is lord? Most of these scriputres that some are writing to prove that salavation can be taken from you, are actually warnings to those who are not saved. 'If you come for the free goodies but never make the committment to salvation, you may be fed, you may be healed, you will spend eternity in hell when your life ends'.

Shiloh said "You have not studied Eternal Security but yet you feel you are qualified to sit in judgment on those who believe it as if we think this is a rose colored world where life is easy and we get a free pass on sin?"

Why do you represent me and not bring in my word

[Smalcald]

I agree with shilo sin has present consequences, physical and psychological and it impacts our ability to be happy at at peace. There are several Psalms that speak of the wicked never knowing in true peace, basically if your always looking over your back you can't be happy. Also the more we sin the more we are used to sinning and the more we like sin the less able we are to have faith in Christ.

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh said "You have not studied Eternal Security but yet you feel you are qualified to sit in judgment on those who believe it as if we think this is a rose colored world where life is easy and we get a free pass on sin?"

Why do you represent me and not bring in my word “adequately” studied. Is not adequately studying saying I haven’t studied at all?

The end result is the same. You don't understand what you presume to criticize. If you understood it well enough to frame it properly and sought to disagree based on a thorough and correct understanding of the doctine, that would be different. But you have admitted that you really don't know what it is you are criticizing. I have tried numerous times to correctly frame the doctrine, but you are intent on relying on your inaccurate, incomplete understanding as the basis for your responses. Do not see how futile and irresponsible that is?

Anway since you were the advocate of Internal Security authority I focused on your arguments, first and took note of your replies.

Uh, when did I ever say anything about "Internal Security?"

Also, I don’t believe in many things you say such as a scripture in Hebrews about being “grafted in.” (your take on what that means)

It means what it means. Being grafted in into Israel is the result of salvation. It is not a metaphor for salvation. Grafted in refers to participation within the community of faith.

However, I will ask one more question before relying totally on research, “...

Truly, truly I say to you unless you eat the flesh of The Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks his blood has internal life and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:52-54 Know is this part of Salvation or does this statement suppose you're already saved?

Jesus was talking to Jews, not to Christians. In Jewish theology, eating and drinking were metaphors for the study of the Torah. The Torah was the spiritual "food" for the Jew. Jesus reflected this line of thinking when He said, "man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God." But the Jews felt that it was this eating and drinking of the Law that brought eternal life.

When Jesus referred to eating His flesh and drinking His blood, He was declaring Himself to be greater than the Law of Moses and He alone could impart eternal life. A Jew of that day and age would have caught the unique spin on the metaphor. For someone to claim to be greater than the law of Moses and to claim that only by partaking of Him and not the Law of Moses could one gain eternal life, and then on top of that, to cliam personal power over death by saying that he had the power to raise people up in "the last day" (thus claiming to be God), was an out-of-this-world, radical claim for a Jew to make in that day and in that community. That is why the left Him and would not follow Him.

What Jesus is saying is that there is no salvation apart from a genuine particpation in His life and Person. He is eeternal life. Salvation is not a thing. Salvation is a Person. It is Christ Himself. That is the unique thing about Christianity. Christianity is Christ. No other religion can say that. One does not have to know Mohammed to be a good Muslim. One does not have to have a relationship with Buddha to be a good Buddhist. But Christianity is so wrapped up and inextricably linked to the Person of Jesus Christ, one's opinion of Christ will determine what they think of the Christian faith.

I am to go into surgery soon but am still researching Eternal Security. Now in terms of that I’ll make a new Post but I’d like to ask if you are a follower of Charles Stanley?

I hope your surgery goes well and there are no complications. No, I am not a follower of Stanley. I have heard some of His sermons and I enjoy his teachings, but I don't keep up with his ministry that much. My plate is pretty full as it is.

[Guest]

Shiloh said "You have not studied Eternal Security but yet you feel you are qualified to sit in judgment on those who believe it as if we think this is a rose colored world where life is easy and we get a free pass on sin?"

Why do you represent me and not bring in my word "adequately" studied. Is not adequately studying saying I haven't studied at all? Anway since you were the advocate of Internal Security authority I focused on your arguments, first and took note of your replies. Also, I don't believe in many things you say such as a scripture in Hebrews about being "grafted in." (your take on what that means) However, I will ask one more question before relying totally on research, "...Truly, truly I say to you unless you eat the flesh of The Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks his blood has internal life and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:52-54 Know is this part of Salvation or does this statement suppose you're already saved?

I am to go into surgery soon but am still researching Eternal Security. Now in terms of that I'll make a new Post but I'd like to ask if you are a follower of Charles Stanley?

Praying~!

[Shiloh62]

Can you loose your salvation? Once you have recieved Christ in your life, can your salvation be taken back by your actions? What if you are a Christian, claim to accept Christ and yet have an affair on your spouse? What if you struggle with lust or are having pre-marital sex. What if you simply accept Christ, yet it's party all the time? Can you still claim to be a Christian? Can you still say you know the lord? Is it possible to have once been saved, yet not be saved anymore?

There are those in the church that believe this is in fact possible. That you can loose your salvation. There are others that believe that you cannot loose it, God doesnt take it away but you can in fact "give it up".

Read my latest examiner article. It investigates each of these claims.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity-in-west-palm-beach/dear-fearful-is-it-possible-to-loose-your-salvation-read-on

What do you believe. Can you loose salvation? Can you surrender it? Once you have it, is it yours for all time? Post what you think and dont forget to check out the article.

no

[luke22ministries]

Thats a pretty straight forward answer, Shiloh. Thanks!

Can you loose your salvation? Once you have recieved Christ in your life, can your salvation be taken back by your actions? What if you are a Christian, claim to accept Christ and yet have an affair on your spouse? What if you struggle with lust or are having pre-marital sex. What if you simply accept Christ, yet it's party all the time? Can you still claim to be a Christian? Can you still say you know the lord? Is it possible to have once been saved, yet not be saved anymore?

There are those in the church that believe this is in fact possible. That you can loose your salvation. There are others that believe that you cannot loose it, God doesnt take it away but you can in fact "give it up".

Read my latest examiner article. It investigates each of these claims.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity-in-west-palm-beach/dear-fearful-is-it-possible-to-loose-your-salvation-read-on

What do you believe. Can you loose salvation? Can you surrender it? Once you have it, is it yours for all time? Post what you think and dont forget to check out the article.

no

[Guest man]

I just want to remind you guys that this thread was based on an article I wrote for the Examiner. In this article, I do argue that it is not possible to lose your salvation but sin has its own set of consequences. If you are interested, please check it out. It might either give you a new perspective or something to argue.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity-in-west-palm-beach/dear-fearful-is-it-possible-to-loose-your-salvation-read-on

Agreed!

"We are punished by our sins, not for them"

"Punished by our sins"........Really? You honestly believe that?

Yes in a roundabout way. I am not alluding to scripture here. Rob a bank (sin right?), you will end up being shot, or in prision. Punished by your sin. Drink too much, lose control, drive your car, kill another driver, end up in prison. Punished by your sin.

if you get my drift....

That's called "Karma".

Is that something you find compatible with the Word?

[Guest shiloh357]

I just want to remind you guys that this thread was based on an article I wrote for the Examiner. In this article, I do argue that it is not possible to lose your salvation but sin has its own set of consequences. If you are interested, please check it out. It might either give you a new perspective or something to argue.

http://www.examiner.com/christianity-in-west-palm-beach/dear-fearful-is-it-possible-to-loose-your-salvation-read-on

Agreed!

"We are punished by our sins, not for them"

"Punished by our sins"........Really? You honestly believe that?

Yes in a roundabout way. I am not alluding to scripture here. Rob a bank (sin right?), you will end up being shot, or in prision. Punished by your sin. Drink too much, lose control, drive your car, kill another driver, end up in prison. Punished by your sin.

if you get my drift....

That's called "Karma".

Is that something you find compatible with the Word?

No, it is not Karma. Karma is the law that you incur pentalties for bad actions and rewards for good actions in a subsquent life. You work off bad karma by doing good deeds in this life in order to enjoy a more advanced satus in a subsequent life.

What Fez is referring to is reaping the consquences in THIS life for the choices you make today.

[PeterH]

I just want to remind you guys that this thread was based on an article I wrote for the Examiner. In this article, I do argue that it is not possible to lose your salvation but sin has its own set of consequences. If you are interested, please check it out. It might either give you a new perspective or something to argue.

http://www.examiner....lvation-read-on

Agreed!

"We are punished by our sins, not for them"

"Punished by our sins"........Really? You honestly believe that?

Yes in a roundabout way. I am not alluding to scripture here. Rob a bank (sin right?), you will end up being shot, or in prision. Punished by your sin. Drink too much, lose control, drive your car, kill another driver, end up in prison. Punished by your sin.

if you get my drift....

That's called "Karma".

Is that something you find compatible with the Word?

No, it is not Karma. Karma is the law that you incur penalties for bad actions and rewards for good actions in a subsequent life. You work off bad karma by doing good deeds in this life in order to enjoy a more advanced status in a subsequent life.

What Fez is referring to is reaping the consequences in THIS life for the choices you make today.

Exactly!