The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

[PeterH]

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

by Dr. Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

-2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

Find the full article here: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

[Fez]

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

by Dr. Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

-2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

Find the full article here: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

My ESV states..

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

My KJV states..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: forG3754 that day shall not come, except there come a falling awayG646 first, and that manof sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

G646

ἀποστασία

apostasia

Thayer Definition:

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

[~candice~]

Here is the verse in context:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, my brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2Th 2:2 that you should not be soon shaken in mind or troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word or letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,

2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.

It does seem to be about the Second coming, the only way this is about the rapture is if you believe that the rapture and the second coming are one and the same event (I do) but I was under the impression that only post tribbers believe that? Otherwise, are you suggesting Jesus is on earth during the Trib?

I can't see how this works, because 1 Thess 4 tells us that we will be with Him forever from that moment, so we wouldn't really be raptured to anywhere (Jesus is on earth) if this is pre trib.

Make sense?

GBU

[Bold Believer]

Apostasia refers to departure from a standard, in this case the Scriptures. It doesn't refer to leaving a place.

[PeterH]

The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

by Dr. Thomas Ice

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

-2 Thessalonians 2:3

I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated "apostasy," is a reference to the rapture and should be translated "departure." Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism.

Find the full article here: http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23

My ESV states..

2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

My KJV states..

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: forG3754 that day shall not come, except there come a falling awayG646 first, and that manof sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

G646

ἀποστασία

apostasia

Thayer Definition:

1) a falling away, defection, apostasy

That's just it Fez. The article is saying from the KJV forward have all changed the original word.

Translation History The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either "departure" or "departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).[5] This supports the notion that the word truly means "departure." In fact, Jerome's Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of a.d. 400 renders apostasia with the "word discessio, meaning 'departure.'"[6] Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure"?

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as "falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as "departure." No good reason was ever given.

[PeterH]

Here is the verse in context:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, my brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2Th 2:2 that you should not be soon shaken in mind or troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word or letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,

2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.

It does seem to be about the Second coming, the only way this is about the rapture is if you believe that the rapture and the second coming are one and the same event (I do) but I was under the impression that only post tribbers believe that? Otherwise, are you suggesting Jesus is on earth during the Trib?

I can't see how this works, because 1 Thess 4 tells us that we will be with Him forever from that moment, so we wouldn't really be raptured to anywhere (Jesus is on earth) if this is pre trib.

Make sense?

GBU

No sorry, what you said does not make sense to me, I'm sorry. The first verse states there are two events and separates them by the and clause. The second verse tells them not be troubled as if the day of Christ is at hand. Why would a believer be troubled if he were talking about the Second coming when Christ comes back, defeats the lawless one and sets up his 1000 year kingdom? It makes more sense that he is talking about the Great and terrible day of the Lord aka day of Christ aka the Great Tribulation.

Then we get into the heart of the article in verse 3. And I am wondering about if there are any greek scholars that can add any light on the original greek and not the transliteration.

[Shiloh62]

That's a possibility.

[~candice~]

Here is the verse in context:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, my brothers, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2Th 2:2 that you should not be soon shaken in mind or troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word or letter, as through us, as if the Day of Christ is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,

2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.

It does seem to be about the Second coming, the only way this is about the rapture is if you believe that the rapture and the second coming are one and the same event (I do) but I was under the impression that only post tribbers believe that? Otherwise, are you suggesting Jesus is on earth during the Trib?

I can't see how this works, because 1 Thess 4 tells us that we will be with Him forever from that moment, so we wouldn't really be raptured to anywhere (Jesus is on earth) if this is pre trib.

Make sense?

GBU

No sorry, what you said does not make sense to me, I'm sorry. The first verse states there are two events and separates them by the and clause. The second verse tells them not be troubled as if the day of Christ is at hand. Why would a believer be troubled if he were talking about the Second coming when Christ comes back, defeats the lawless one and sets up his 1000 year kingdom? It makes more sense that he is talking about the Great and terrible day of the Lord aka day of Christ aka the Great Tribulation.

Then we get into the heart of the article in verse 3. And I am wondering about if there are any greek scholars that can add any light on the original greek and not the transliteration.

Two events, but "that day". It's one and the same event.

[Shiloh62]

Thats why He's coming back -to pick up the believers.

[JohnD]

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (KJV)

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Some believe the above is the second coming of Christ. I would only state that his second coming will not be in the air but on the Earth. On the Mount of Olives in fact. And he will intercede for the Jews who survived to that point in Armageddon who as a last resort cried out to him for salvation from an eminent doom. Hosha Nah! Hosha Nah! Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the LORD! Hosha Nah! Save Now!

The above text refers to a resurrection / translation (for those who are still alive at the time).

1 Corinthians 15:51-58 (KJV)

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Second coming?

Again... in the air, not on the ground.

Revelation 20:1-6 (KJV)

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first (general) resurrection has not taken place yet. The first resurrection took place 17 Nisan 30 CE when our Lord rose from the grave in his body. Blessed be he! Others who were raised from the dead before then and even at that time and since have all died so theirs was not a resurrection but a resuscitation... because they all died again. The Lord Yeshua is a resurrected human being who will never die again and in his Spirit he is God the Word.

Hallelujah!

Jude 14-15 (KJV)

14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Zechariah 14 (KJV)

1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

Prior to this will be the resurrection / translation of the saints to meet the Lord in the air. It could be an immediate return of the Lord to the Earth... but scripture indicates it will just short of 3.5 years later...

Daniel 12:11-12 (KJV)

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Edited June 28, 2011 by JohnDB