Faith

[methinkshe]

"Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed."

It seems to me that we are to understand from this that all spiritual gifts are available to all Believers in and through the indwelling Christ.

Question - is the "you" in the verse singular or plural?

Good question.

I think it is "you" plural, but does that mean that Paul is speaking to/about many individuals or the Body corporate?

Candice explained it well.

I think that at the moment I'm more inclined to agree with the author of the article I linked in my previous posts when he says the following, although I'm more than willing to be instructed if there is error in the author's exegesis.

The Misnomer of "Spiritual Gifts"

Throughout the history of Christian interpretation of the charismata there seems to have been a tendency to translate and label these divine ministry expressions as "spiritual gifts." This despite the fact that there is nothing inherent in the words pneumatika or charismata themselves that necessarily conveys the idea of a "gift." We do not translate energematon (I Cor. 12:6) as "energy-gifts," so why do we translate pneumatikon (I Cor. 12:1) and charismaton (I Cor. 12:4) as "spiritual gifts"? These words are more adequately translated as "spiritual-expressions" or "grace-expressions" which are, indeed, "given" (I Cor. 12:7,8; Rom. 12:6) by the grace of God.

Additional words in the English translations also contribute to the misconception of separated "spiritual gifts." To refer to the "distributing" of gifts as a translation of diaireo in I Cor. 12:11 (as in NASB), seems to convey the idea of commodity distribution. And reference to God's "allotting" (Rom. 12:3, NASB) something to individual Christians, as if a certain "lot" of merchandise or equipment was distributed, likewise directs thinking towards the misnomer of "spiritual gifts."

The disadvantage and danger of employing the terminology and phraseology of "spiritual gifts" is that such a designation tends to imply a detached disjunction from Christ, the separation of the "gifts" from the divine Giver. This is why "spiritual gifts" have often been viewed as detached "spiritual equipment" to undertake independent "spiritual ministry" that is not at all the expression of Jesus Christ energized by the Spirit of God within His Body.

There is a natural tendency among men to want to objectify everything as independent entities or abilities. In so doing, they want to "get a handle on it, figure it out, identify it, organize it, mobilize it, and use it for utilitarian purposes of productivity." Is this not what we have observed throughout Christian history, as the charismata have been objectified as separated "spiritual gifts," distinct entities or commodities regarded as specialized tools, equipment or "power-toys" which belong to specific individuals as possessions, or even as prizes or trophies of spirituality and success? As is so typical of religion in general, the ontologically dynamic concept of Christic-function has been perverted into a dualistically detached category.5

When the so-called "spiritual gifts" are thus detached, disjoined and divorced from their singular divine source in Jesus Christ, from the very Being of Christ Himself, they are regarded as distinct abilities, endowments, enduements and empowerments allegedly given to individual Christians apart from Christ. They become "something more" added to the foundational indwelling of the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9). Such additions always imply the insufficiency of Christ, and lead to the false criteria of "spirituality" whereby one Christian can claim to be more "spiritual" than another, when, in fact, the only basis of being "spiritual" is the presence of the Spirit of Christ within the spirit of a receptive Christian (cf. I Cor. 2:15). The detachment of the charismata from Christ Himself becomes the basis of dysfunctional egoism, spiritual pride, comparison, competition, and self-exaltation, disallowing their intended purpose to facilitate the functional unity of the Body wherein we are "in Him together," Christ functioning in each in order to serve one another in love.

In an age when the secular job market is suffering from the selfish individualizing tendency of specialization that refuses to function outside of one's prescribed "job description," and people refuse to function in certain manners because "my contract does not include that in my job description," the Church must not fall prey to the same selfish tendency with adamant insistence on specific functions of specialization. Christians must be willing to be flexible and available to express any function of Christ's ministry that is needed at any given time in any given context. Our "neighbor" is any person who has a need, and Christ wants us to be free to be the conduit or vessel of His ministry to anyone in need both within and without the Body of Christ.

Contemporary inventories and tests designed by ecclesiastical leaders to facilitate the identification of one's so-called "spiritual gift" in order to employ it for the utilitarian benefit of a church organization, are inappropriate and misleading. Karl Barth writes,

"the particularities in question...do not arise accidentally or capriciously, nor are they discovered and established by individuals for reasons of practical convenience. On the contrary, they are works of God, of Jesus Christ, of the Holy Spirit. As charismata, they are forms of the one charis addressed to the community as such and operative in it. The very unity of the ministry of the community demands and creates its multiplicity."6

This also reveals the absurdity of attempting to quantify the ministry of Christ by enumerating a particular quantity of so-called "spiritual gifts." The action of God cannot be thus quantified and limited. The particular expressions that Paul mentions in I Cor. 12 and Rom. 12 should not be interpreted as assigned categories of activities nor as complete catalogue listings. They are merely suggestive and illustrative of the unquantifiable expressions of God's grace in Jesus Christ, by His Spirit.

James A. Fowler

Here's the link again.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/chrsmata.html

You may benefit by reading this ... http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1co12.pdf

Thanks for the link to an online Greek Interlinear. For ease of access, it beats my battered hardcover version which I've had from the days before the internet was invented!

[Guest]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. Acts 10:44

______________

1 Corinthians 12 does not list love or hope as a gift. Love is the greatest, but it is not a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit as in the gifts I listed.

Spirit Of The Living God

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

Fall Afresh

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Psalms 51:10

On Me

Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth. Psalms 31:5

[methinkshe]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. Acts 10:44

______________

1 Corinthians 12 does not list love or hope as a gift. Love is the greatest, but it is not a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit as in the gifts I listed.

Spirit Of The Living God

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

Fall Afresh

Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Psalms 51:10

On Me

Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth. Psalms 31:5

Thanks for these Scriptures, Joe.

I think what I am trying to get at is that ALL "spirituals" (the literal translation of the Greek which is rendered as ""spiritual gifts"in English) are bound up in the person of Jesus who indwells the Believer. They are expressions of Jesus. Therefore it is the revealing of them in and through the Believer that is diverse rather than the "spirituals" themselves. The "spirituals" are made available IN Christ and cannot be separated from Him. Nor can Christ be divided. We have the fullness of Christ dwelling in us.

That's where I am at the moment, anyway.

Thanks for your patience.

[PeterH]

1 Corinthians 12 does not list love or hope as a gift. Love is the greatest, but it is not a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit as in the gifts I listed.

True 1 Corinthians 12 doesn't mention Love but chapter 13 is a continuation of the thoughts expressed in chapter 12. If you don't see Love and Hope as spiritual gifts I guess we just don't see eye to eye on that matter.

[OneLight]

1 Corinthians 12 does not list love or hope as a gift. Love is the greatest, but it is not a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit as in the gifts I listed.

True 1 Corinthians 12 doesn't mention Love but chapter 13 is a continuation of the thoughts expressed in chapter 12. If you don't see Love and Hope as spiritual gifts I guess we just don't see eye to eye on that matter.

They are given to us by the Spirit upon salvation, but are not listed as gifts of the Spirit. The explanation in chapter 13 tells us rightly that if we don't have love, we have nothing, no matter if we have all the gifts. Can you show me where hope and love are listed as one of the gifts given by the Spirit for the operations within the body, as listed in chapter 12?

[Believer112]

Neb, I believe that the Holy Spirit gives the gifts as He operates in every body of believers and that no one person has all the gifts. I guess a question should be asked; If all body of believers have the gift, then why are then not in operation in every body of believers? I believe it is the lack of faith in the gifts.

Why the lack of faith? Has religion caused some unbelief? Is it our carnal knowledge, maybe that’s why it's good to have child like faith. A child’s head isn't filled with worldly knowledge and will believe anything is possible. All born again Christians can have enough faith to pray the most powerful prayer in their life, receiving salvation, but most don't have enough faith on the laying of hands on the sick. God taught the disciples the power of faith believing by speaking to the fig tree.

John 14 (AMP)

¹⁰Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the (^[a]His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).

¹¹Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [if you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father's name convince you.]

¹²I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, if anyone steadfastly believes in Me, he will himself be able to do the things that I do; and he will do even greater things than these, because I go to the Father.

¹³And I will do [i Myself will grant] whatever you ask in My Name [as ^[b]presenting all that I AM], so that the Father may be glorified and extolled in (through) the Son.

¹⁴[Yes] I will grant [i Myself will do for you] whatever you shall ask in My Name [as ^[c]presenting all that I AM].

Lord I believe help me with my unbelief. AMEN

[OneLight]

I would also add that people like being told what to believe when they don't have the desire to study themselves. It is much easier to agree with what you are told then to be as the Bereans were and hold everything they hear up to scripture to see if it is the truth. There are many denominations that either do not believe the gifts are for today, or that only some of the gifts are operational today. People get swallowed up by denominational doctrines and will not budge because if they do, they are "disowned" by the group of people they have been associated with for such a long time.

It takes growing faith to study and continue to walk in His will. Studying alone, gathering understanding alone, is not suffice. There needs to be an action, which takes faith. Without faith, there is no action. That is why He give us more faith every time we look to Him to move in our lives. There is an action going on, even when it comes from God. James put it perfectly when he wrote "Faith without works is dead." Faith without action is useless faith, does nothing, hinders His will and Spirit.

Yes, this is a bit of a sidetrack, but well worth it.

[Fez]

Can the spiritual gift of faith (not the saving faith we all have to have to believe), be given to us by the Holy Spirit for a certain instance. To achieve something that He wishes us to achieve?

I guess what I am saying is can we be given this gift to achieve something that is the desire of our heart (to heal a loved one in His name for instance), as a one off gift, to be given, perhaps at another stage in our lives for something similar?

And yes I understand that if it is His will and our desire, He may give us this gift unconditionally.

[methinkshe]

Can the spiritual gift of faith (not the saving faith we all have to have to believe), be given to us by the Holy Spirit for a certain instance. To achieve something that He wishes us to achieve?

I guess what I am saying is can we be given this gift to achieve something that is the desire of our heart (to heal a loved one in His name for instance), as a one off gift, to be given, perhaps at another stage in our lives for something similar?

And yes I understand that if it is His will and our desire, He may give us this gift unconditionally.

I think it is absolutely the case that the Lord gives us His faith to accomplish the works He has prepared for us to do.

But I don't think that we can "drum-up" faith, so to speak. We either receive it or we do not, as the Spirit-in-us wills. At least, that is my experience.

When I was first converted I had two children and that was all I wanted and all I intended to have. Then God totally changed my mind and gave me the faith to have seven more and to trust Him to supply our needs - which He has done. And it wasn't that we decided to have nine children but rather to trust Him to give us however many He decided. If they came, He would supply, and if they did not, then that was okay by me, too.

Another notable instance when I received a gift of faith concerned a large, 5-bedroom house with separate workshop and offices, that I dearly would have loved to buy. It cost £30,000 at the time (nowadays it would be closer to £350,000). But we had no money and were living in a rented, ex-council farmhouse that we had renovated (using my husband's removal expenses when he moved jobs) in return for a minimal rent. I carried around the Estate Agent's Spec for my dream house for over a year, just telling the Lord how much I would love to live in that house - it was so suited to our growing family. Somehow, I just knew it would be ours, impossible though it seemed. I think the Lord gave me the faith to believe that He would provide. Anyway............

Any Brit of a certain age will remember how Margaret Thatcher made it possible for council house tenants to buy their house. Although our ex-council farmhouse wasn't your typical council house (it had 1/2 acre land attached) we came under the new law. I was able to apply for outline planning consent to build six houses on the land which hugely increased the value then, all on the same day, buy it at a 60% discount (which the new law allowed for tenants of 5 years plus) sell it to a property developer I'd lined up, bank a £24,000 profit, use a £6,000 mortgage I had secured, and buy my longed for house for 30K. If that wasn't a miracle, I don't know what was! From £0 - £30k in a day! And the fact that it was still available after a year of being on the market (and twice sold subject to contract but sale not completed) was a miracle in itself. 25 years later, I still marvel at this provision from the Lord.

I could go on to tell how I then started to act WITHOUT faith and in my own strength concerning housing; of wilderness years followed by another miraculous housing provision from the Lord; of again moving in my own strength followed by more wilderness years (yep, I know, I'm obstinate and a slow-learner!) and yet another housing provision - where we still a live - but I've learned the lesson now. The Lord provides and I now trust HIM to maintain His provision - I don't try to improve His provision or hang on to it by using my own cleverness and wiles as I did before. And I now know experientially what Paul meant when he said in Romans 14:23:

........everything that does not come from faith is sin.

[OneLight]

Can the spiritual gift of faith (not the saving faith we all have to have to believe), be given to us by the Holy Spirit for a certain instance. To achieve something that He wishes us to achieve?

I guess what I am saying is can we be given this gift to achieve something that is the desire of our heart (to heal a loved one in His name for instance), as a one off gift, to be given, perhaps at another stage in our lives for something similar?

And yes I understand that if it is His will and our desire, He may give us this gift unconditionally.

1 Corinthians 12:11 tells us "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." This is a powerful statement that tells us He will distribute according to His will. It can be a one time gift, a repeating gift, or an on going gift. He determines who receives the gift, when it is received and for how long the person will have it. Yes, it can be for a one time event as well as an ongoing gift. We all have our ministry, with the proper gift(s) to accomplish His work. Again, I am beginning to believe that the gift of faith is required when another gift is given. We, using just the faith we have in Him, may not compel us enough to step out in that faith to work in the realm of the spiritual gifts.