Guest Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Faith is not religion nor is it tied to any denomination. It is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. If you understand what He accomplished on the Cross and do as He has commanded, it matters not what you call yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted August 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Outside of the Church there is an endless circle. Thankfully, Jesus gave us an authoritative Church to avoid this confusion. If your Head is a man and not Jesus, you are following a cult. If you have to go to a man or woman to intercede to God on your behalf, you are in a cult. Now, do you want to continue going around in this circle debate? I think you hit the nail on the head. For those needing more information, here's a great link: http://carm.org/roman-catholicism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Outside of the Church there is an endless circle. Thankfully, Jesus gave us an authoritative Church to avoid this confusion. If your Head is a man and not Jesus, you are following a cult. If you have to go to a man or woman to intercede to God on your behalf, you are in a cult. Now, do you want to continue going around in this circle debate? Amen Nebula. This circle debate has gone on too long, and no one is profiting by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Outside of the Church there is an endless circle. Thankfully, Jesus gave us an authoritative Church to avoid this confusion. If your Head is a man and not Jesus, you are following a cult. If you have to go to a man or woman to intercede to God on your behalf, you are in a cult. Now, do you want to continue going around in this circle debate? What did Jesus say? And then what did Peter and Paul have to say to people who bowed down to them? What did Paul say about who you belong to? Is Jesus your head or not? You really want to keep this circle going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted August 25, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 378 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/18/1965 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Sorry to take so long to reply. I tend to lose track of some threads. What you've given is the Catholic perspective... one that is not held by the Eastern Orthodox Church as far as I understand it. "The Orthodox Church teaches that all bishops are equal." "Orthodoxy teaches that every bishop, "the living icon of Christ," and his flock constitute the Church in a certain place; or, as St. Ignatius the God-bearer says, the Church of Christ is in the bishop, his priests and deacons, with the people, surrounding the Eucharist in the true faith. All bishops and their flocks so constituted, together composing the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church." (http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html) Might I suggest you read over what the Eastern Orthodox Church says upon the matter of Orthodox belief and Roman Catholic belief? If you choose in good conscience and in your best understanding of Christ to follow the teachings and leadership of the Roman Catholic Church, then so be it. Please do not propagate biased information in seeking to lead others down that path though. I agree that I have given the Catholic perspective, but how did I illustrate this perspective? I demonstrated that the early Eastern Fathers accepted the current Catholic view of the papacy. This proves that there was a change in the Eastern Church at some point and that the Catholic Church has maintained the position of the early Church. And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. (Matthew 23:9) I suggest you take this up with Eastern Orthodox believers, as they would strongly disagree with you. One would think they know their beliefs and positions better than you would. If you choose to follow church 'fathers', saints and popes, then you are entirely welcome to. When I read your posts though, it does not inspire love for the Roman Catholic church, but rather a deep sadness that men would love human traditions vs. our Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted August 25, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 378 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/21/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/18/1965 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Sorry to take so long to reply. I tend to lose track of some threads. What you've given is the Catholic perspective... one that is not held by the Eastern Orthodox Church as far as I understand it. "The Orthodox Church teaches that all bishops are equal." "Orthodoxy teaches that every bishop, "the living icon of Christ," and his flock constitute the Church in a certain place; or, as St. Ignatius the God-bearer says, the Church of Christ is in the bishop, his priests and deacons, with the people, surrounding the Eucharist in the true faith. All bishops and their flocks so constituted, together composing the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church." (http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html) Might I suggest you read over what the Eastern Orthodox Church says upon the matter of Orthodox belief and Roman Catholic belief? If you choose in good conscience and in your best understanding of Christ to follow the teachings and leadership of the Roman Catholic Church, then so be it. Please do not propagate biased information in seeking to lead others down that path though. I agree that I have given the Catholic perspective, but how did I illustrate this perspective? I demonstrated that the early Eastern Fathers accepted the current Catholic view of the papacy. This proves that there was a change in the Eastern Church at some point and that the Catholic Church has maintained the position of the early Church. I suggest you take this up with Eastern Orthodox believers, as they would strongly disagree with you. One would think they know their beliefs and positions better than you would. If you choose to follow church 'fathers', saints and popes, then you are entirely welcome to. When I read your posts though, it does not inspire love for the Roman Catholic church, but rather a deep sadness that men would love human traditions vs. our Father. How could they disagree with the quotes I provided from Eastern Fathers? Did you even read the quotes? Why bring up a point if you don't even care about the Truth of the matter? How could they disagree? Perhaps you should follow the link to the Orthodox website I posted and read for yourself. http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html Truth? Yes, I care passionately about the Truth, and the Truth is Jesus Christ. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted August 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted August 25, 2011 chestertonrules How could they disagree with the quotes I provided from Eastern Fathers? Did you even read the quotes? Why bring up a point if you don't even care about the Truth of the matter? What's it going to take for you to get the hint that Catholic dogma and doctrine is not going to be accepted here? We know about what you're trying to sell, and we're not interested. Here's why: http://carm.org/roman-catholicism Study it - free yourself - come out of it. It doesn't resemble God's Word. This should be required reading for anyone considering Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 26, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 26, 2011 And then what did Peter and Paul have to say to people who bowed down to them? What did Paul say about who you belong to? Is Jesus your head or not? You really want to keep this circle going? Did Jesus start a Church? Did Jesus tell us to listen to the Church? Did Jesus tell us to listen to those he sent? If so, then why don't you? Shall we keep asking each other questions with no one answering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead Posted August 26, 2011 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 871 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 17 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/28/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 26, 2011 If your Head is a man and not Jesus, you are following a cult. If you have to go to a man or woman to intercede to God on your behalf, you are in a cult. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted August 26, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 26, 2011 Sorry to take so long to reply. I tend to lose track of some threads. What you've given is the Catholic perspective... one that is not held by the Eastern Orthodox Church as far as I understand it. "The Orthodox Church teaches that all bishops are equal." "Orthodoxy teaches that every bishop, "the living icon of Christ," and his flock constitute the Church in a certain place; or, as St. Ignatius the God-bearer says, the Church of Christ is in the bishop, his priests and deacons, with the people, surrounding the Eucharist in the true faith. All bishops and their flocks so constituted, together composing the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church." (http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html) Might I suggest you read over what the Eastern Orthodox Church says upon the matter of Orthodox belief and Roman Catholic belief? If you choose in good conscience and in your best understanding of Christ to follow the teachings and leadership of the Roman Catholic Church, then so be it. Please do not propagate biased information in seeking to lead others down that path though. I agree that I have given the Catholic perspective, but how did I illustrate this perspective? I demonstrated that the early Eastern Fathers accepted the current Catholic view of the papacy. This proves that there was a change in the Eastern Church at some point and that the Catholic Church has maintained the position of the early Church. I suggest you take this up with Eastern Orthodox believers, as they would strongly disagree with you. One would think they know their beliefs and positions better than you would. If you choose to follow church 'fathers', saints and popes, then you are entirely welcome to. When I read your posts though, it does not inspire love for the Roman Catholic church, but rather a deep sadness that men would love human traditions vs. our Father. How could they disagree with the quotes I provided from Eastern Fathers? Did you even read the quotes? Why bring up a point if you don't even care about the Truth of the matter? How could they disagree? Perhaps you should follow the link to the Orthodox website I posted and read for yourself. http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/reading/ortho_cath.html Truth? Yes, I care passionately about the Truth, and the Truth is Jesus Christ. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) The point, which you keep ignoring, is that Jesus started a single Church. There was no such thing as the Orthodox Church for several hundred years after Christ walked the earth. Jesus is the way, and he started a Church to guide us. The point, which you keep ignoring, is that the church Jesus started was not the Roman Catholic Church, but His body of believers that had not real name. It was not until later that congregations started having names. You want to step back in time, but refuse to step all the way back. Jesus came to the Jewish people, not the Gentiles. You seem to forget that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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