How important is theology for evangelists?

[Guest shiloh357]

Continued..

It's not much different today with the Pharisees refusing to acknowledge the meshakim as being Jewish, nor the Reformed as having any authority either. They have used theology to build an ivory tower.

Oh but it is very different…

In the 1st Century, you did not have 1,700 years of church anti-Semitism to deal with. The opposition to Jesus and His followers in the 1st Century was more political and had to do with men wanting to hold on to their positions of power. Jesus’ was not the first “messiah” that had appeared on the scene and in times past “messianic movements” did not end well. They usually ended up with revolts and bloodshed and with Rome breathing down the back of their necks, another “messiah” will lead to another revolt. When Jesus came into Jerusalem riding on the foal of the donkey, and cleared the temple, that was the last straw. They were not going to let this man bring down the wrath of Rome and they sought out ways to put Him to death. They did not want another “messiah” real or not, to bring down the wrath of the Roman authorities.

Today, the resitance felt by the Meshikim stems from a backlash in response to centuries of hatred and anti-Semitism being inflicted on the Jewish people. An entire theology was erected to combat church anti-Semitism that is still being employed today. Even as far back 1100 AD, RASHI went back and edited rabbinical commentaries in the Mishna and in other places that employed a Messianic interpretation pertaining to certain Scriptures. RASHI for example, is credited as the one who introduced the notion that Isaiah 53 is really speaking of Israel.

Quote

What I actually said was, "The Pharisees were the theologians of their day that is true, but as someone like you who has been to Israel and has presumably studied all this out, it was not "the pharisees" who sought Jesus' death, but it was his detractors among them."

Can you make the case that it wasn't the overwhelming majority of the Sanhedrin supporting the crucifixion? I can think of only 3 who have been mentioned as coming to faith in Yeshua.

We only have three of record. But that does not preclude there being more. The trial of Jesus was held in secret. They violated many laws in that they put Jesus on trial at night, during a festival, with the High Priest presiding, with no advocate for Jesus and no chance for Jesus to defend Himself was granted, and they brought in false witnesses to testify against Him

There is no way to know precisely how many supporters Jesus had among the Sanhedrin, but remember this was a SECRET trial, so none of his supporters in the Sanhedrin would have been invited. Had they been present, they would have likely pointed out the laws that were being broken to conduct such a sham of a trial. What we DO know is that 100% of the Sanhredrin that was present unanimously consented to Jesus’ death.

Even if we assume that there were only three supporters of Jesus in the entire group of Sanhedrin that does not give you a license to make unfair, blanket accusations and paint all theologians with the same brush. You are simply incapable of being objective about this and what is worse is that you presume a lot of stuff that only highlights your overall ignorance where theology, theologians and seminaries are concerned. There are good and bad seminaries and there are good and bad theolgians. There are some seminaries that should be burnt to the ground, frankly. There are theologians I would not give the time of day to. But I possess the objectivity to know the differeence. All you can do is rant.

My disdain is really for the theologians of early to middle christianity for laying the foundation, and then for later theologians who simply put a house of straw on the foundation of rubble that gets us to the apostasy today.

That is what I used to think too. What I have learned is that there are five major categories of theology:

1. Systematic;

2. Biblical;

3. Historic;

4. Dogmatic;

5. Contemporary.

Historic theology is what you are referring to, I think. Actually historic theology is a synthesis of systematic theology and church history. But it is not a case of building on top of what other theologians have laid down, necessarily. Historic theology examines doctrines in the light of how they were understood in their historical context and this allows theologians to make needed changes.

Historic theology is not a “progressive” theology in that we simply and blindly receive what was believed in history. Much of what was taught by theologians in earlier centuries have been rejected. In fact, the early church was also not a monolith. There were a lot of ideas and doctrines in circulation back then. They wrestled with many of the same questions we are dealing with in our day. We have retained some of the good (Trinity, Deity of Jesus, and the Hypostatic Union) but we have also retained in certain denominations things that are questionable and downright wrong. (Infant baptism, Replacement Theology, Baptismal regeneration, the Ebonite heresies, semi-Pelagianism, and so on).

[Joshua-777]

1 Corinthians 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

I'm finding that there is so much power in the simplicity of the gospel presented in love. When the gospel is presented in love we can expect God to move. Theology is only important if its clearly lived out in our lives, but never fall in the trap of witnessing your doctrine. Keep it on Jesus and Him crucified. When we witness our doctrine we end up trying to sway someones to our way of thinking instead of introducing them to the love of the Savior, and Always listen to the Holy Spirit, depend on Him to move. He is a better evangelist then we are! Let Him move and He will, follow where He leads.

I heard an awesome quote from Todd White

"My job isn't to get someone to pray the prayer, my job is to love them into the Kingdom so they want what I have"

[Joshua-777]

I've been hearing many testimonies of people engaging in a different kind of evangelism - not by preaching, not by debating, not by tracts - but by offering prayer.

Either they'd verbally talk to people and ask, "Would you like prayer?" or by holding a sign "Free prayer" and let interested people come to them. All they do is pray - and a lot of times the Lord touches the person somehow - including healings!

A group of mostly young people just finished up a tour going to Ivy League schools just hanging out on the campus grounds worshiping and holding up "Free prayer" signs made out of cardboard - were never pushy on anyone but let the people who who ripe for harvest come to them. There are testimonies of salvation (a Hindu just gave his life to Jesus a couple days ago!) and healing from them.

This is how I've been enguaging in evangelism mostly. Usualy I'll tell someone the Lords been blessing me and ask how I can bless them in prayer and I'll testify of what the Lords doing. This opens up a door to present the gospel as a blessing and a joyful thing because it's being shown in love. I have seen the Lord open so many peoples hearts through this and many healings also. My friends and I are starting to make our livestyle evangelism. Instead of something we do, it's who we are, we are called to testify of what our Lord has done for us. Also there has been many times where I just explained the gospel in a simple way and got to watch another brother or sister be born.

This is one of the best topics I've seen on here in a while!

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh - I appreciate your perspective and what you have to say, and I believe I do understand.

However, right now the Lord is working in me to bring out my heart and bring my mind under the submission of my heart.

Can you explain a theology that is heart-based rather than mind-based?

Proper theology is neither heart-based or mind-based. Theology ( at least that which is sound) is Scripture-based.

In the Bible, the heart and mind, especially in the Hebrew, are almost indistinguishable. Together they represent one's entire being. We are to love God with both our heart and mind. We are to employ both in our service to Him. I don't think that one "submits" to the other. Rather both are submitted to God when we daily offer ourselves as living sacrifices.

[Joshua-777]

Shiloh - I appreciate your perspective and what you have to say, and I believe I do understand.

However, right now the Lord is working in me to bring out my heart and bring my mind under the submission of my heart.

Can you explain a theology that is heart-based rather than mind-based?

This is how the Lord is working in me, my mind under submission to my heart, and my heart under the submission of Jesus. It's all through intimacy, as we spend time with the Lord and spend time becoming the Word, we are filled with His presence, our heart lines up with His. We were given a new heart when we accepted Him, His heart! We are a new creation in Him. The Holy Spirit speaks to our heart, when our heart is open to Him we will listen. Our heart needs to be bigger than our mind in order to love as He loved us.

Jerimiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

1 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Romans 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

[Matthitjah]

Proper theology is neither heart-based or mind-based. Theology ( at least that which is sound) is Scripture-based.

Yes, because your heart and mind could be telling you something opposed to scripture and then you have a problem.

[Joshua-777]

Proper theology is neither heart-based or mind-based. Theology ( at least that which is sound) is Scripture-based.

Yes, because your heart and mind could be telling you something opposed to scripture and then you have a problem.

Both have to be under submission to the Word of God.

[Guest]

I just had a thought, hopefully this may clear perspectives?

List together the elements you believe are important for evangelists in order of importance.

Example:

Love for Jesus

Love for the person

Basic knowledge of the Gospel

Sensitivity to the Holy Spirit

More expounded theology

Anything else?

food...don't want to leave food out.

and dancing would be fun!?

woo hoo! we're meeting with Yeshua again today!?

yippee!!!

:24:

[nebula]

food...don't want to leave food out.

and dancing would be fun!?

woo hoo! we're meeting with Yeshua again today!?

yippee!!!

OK - you got me!

[nebula]

Shiloh - I appreciate your perspective and what you have to say, and I believe I do understand.

However, right now the Lord is working in me to bring out my heart and bring my mind under the submission of my heart.

Can you explain a theology that is heart-based rather than mind-based?

Proper theology is neither heart-based or mind-based. Theology ( at least that which is sound) is Scripture-based.

In the Bible, the heart and mind, especially in the Hebrew, are almost indistinguishable. Together they represent one's entire being. We are to love God with both our heart and mind. We are to employ both in our service to Him. I don't think that one "submits" to the other. Rather both are submitted to God when we daily offer ourselves as living sacrifices.

I guess I didn't explain that right. I'm thinking heart = spirit, and it's our spirit that hears from the Holy Spirit. My mind gets in the way of hearing the Spirit.