Where is the evidence that Satan fell BEFORE Creation?

[Bold Believer]

Where is the evidence that Satan fell before the Creation? It appears from even a cursory reading of the Scriptures that he was doing exactly what he was meant to do: Be God's adversary.

Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Two things to consider with this verse:

1. Does God create a world that needs work? The earth was formless and void??

2. Why is there darkness over the surface of the deep? Darkness is a sign of judgement in the Bible. The judgements God did to the Egyptians, one was darkness.

When Jesus died on the cross, there was darkness. At the end times, there will be darkness. So, you got darkness at the very beginning. What is being judged?

Is it satan and the host of fallen angels?

An opinion may be as follows; After God created the heavens and the earth, satan wanted to be like God and rule over the creation. So he rebelled and after a time,

God dished out the judgement. Maybe, opinion wise, was what happened to the dinosaurs. Whatever the case, what God created, is described as formless and void, with

darkness over the deep. It just doesn't seem to be God's way of creating things.

The earth was formless and void because the Creation process had only just begun. Isaiah 45 has a lot to say about that.

Isa 45:18 ¶ For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.

When a artist begins a work, the end result is not evident...BUT THE ARTIST KNOWS IN HIS MIND WHAT HE INTENDS TO DO. So it was with Creation. Just because there was darkness at the beginning of the process doesn't indicate a Satanic rebellion.

[Joshua-777]

Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:

“ You were the seal of perfection,

Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;

Every precious stone was your covering:

The sardius, topaz, and diamond,

Beryl, onyx, and jasper,

Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.

The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes

Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14“ You were the anointed cherub who covers;

I established you;

You were on the holy mountain of God;

You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,

Till iniquity was found in you.

16“ By the abundance of your trading

You became filled with violence within,

And you sinned;

Therefore I cast you as a profane thing

Out of the mountain of God;

And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,

From the midst of the fiery stones.

17“ Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;

You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;

I cast you to the ground,

I laid you before kings,

That they might gaze at you.

Isaiah 14:12“ How you are fallen from heaven,

O Lucifer, son of the morning!

How you are cut down to the ground,

You who weakened the nations!

13 For you have said in your heart:

‘ I will ascend into heaven,

I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;

I will also sit on the mount of the congregation

On the farthest sides of the north;

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,

I will be like the Most High.’

15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,

To the lowest depths of the Pit.

[glf]

Where is the evidence that Satan fell before the Creation? It appears from even a cursory reading of the Scriptures that he was doing exactly what he was meant to do: Be God's adversary.

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. The hebrew word choice here tells us that the Earth was created ready to be inhabited.

Gen1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The hebrew word for was is also used for became. It is in context that one finds which to use, except that here it can work either way...

Now compare the similar word order in this next passage with Gen1:2

Jer4:23-26 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

From Adam to the end of the millennium, there is man upon the Earth. Yet, here we see cities broken down by the Lord's anger and there is no man? Also we see that there is no sun as yet. This is because the Lord walked among them before there was sin. In Rev21, 22; we see that there will again be no sun shinning upon the New Earth as the Lord is the light of the world, just as he was for the mortal men-like beings who became angels or demons.

Again compare the similar word order between Jer4 and Is14 as seen in the following; world as a wilderness = fruitful place was a wilderness or cities broken down = destroyed the cities thereof. We also see that the evil one is in fact, a ghost...

Is14:12-20 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

This is called the Gap theory, meaning that there is an undetermined gap of time between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2

[other one]

Isa 45:18

18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens

(He is the God who formed the earth and made it,

He established it and did not create it a waste place,

But formed it to be inhabited),

NASB

[Massorite]

If by creation you mean the heavens and the Earth, I guess one could say that Satan fell before those were created. However, since Satan was a creation of God, one could assume that he is a part of creation. So; if one were to look at it that way, he did not fall before creation. Oh, apparently PeterH said something similar to this.But, hey I agree with him.

I could be wrong but I believe that Satan fell before the creation of man because the bible says in Gen. 1:2 "and darkness was on the face of the deep" In this verse according to the Strongs the word "darkness" represents wickedness and death and we all know who that is. Satan. And the word "deep" is speaking about water or oceans.

Next in verse 2 the spirit of God moved "brooded or thought about what to do next" and in verse 3 it says "and God said let there be light". I like to ask people "How many times did God create light?" and most will say once. However the light that God created in verse 3 was created on the first day. yuk,yuk,yuk.

It was the light of God that God created on the first day and the sun which sheds light onto the earth wasn't created until the forth day.

Which means that Satan was already here on earth before man was created.

[glf]

If by creation you mean the heavens and the Earth, I guess one could say that Satan fell before those were created. However, since Satan was a creation of God, one could assume that he is a part of creation. So; if one were to look at it that way, he did not fall before creation. Oh, apparently PeterH said something similar to this.But, hey I agree with him.

I could be wrong but I believe that Satan fell before the creation of man because the bible says in Gen. 1:2 "and darkness was on the face of the deep" In this verse according to the Strongs the word "darkness" represents wickedness and death and we all know who that is. Satan. And the word "deep" is speaking about water or oceans.

Next in verse 2 the spirit of God moved "brooded or thought about what to do next" and in verse 3 it says "and God said let there be light". I like to ask people "How many times did God create light?" and most will say once. However the light that God created in verse 3 was created on the first day. yuk,yuk,yuk.

It was the light of God that God created on the first day and the sun which sheds light onto the earth wasn't created until the forth day.

Which means that Satan was already here on earth before man was created.

Regarding light in the time of the beginning, I suspect that before these events the Lord was the light of the world before the evil one fell and therefore before sin was in the world of that time. It would have been like it will be in New Jerusalem, where the Lord is the light of the world and there will be no darkness or night. Just a thougth...

[enoob57]

we know it was after the garden was created-

Ezek 28:13-15

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

KJV

and at or before this-

Gen 3:4-5

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

NKJV

[Guest]

Eden

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Ezekiel 28:13

The Holy Mountain

Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Ezekiel 28:14

Of God

Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: Isaiah 6:6

Eden

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Genesis 2:7-8

The Garden For Man

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.] And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Genesis 2:9-15

And Finally The Holy City Of God

And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Revelation 21:18-22

Just Another Take On The Edens And On The Holy City Under Construction