The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[Michae]

Salvation of the spirit comes down to one thing, Christ in you is salvation.

"He that has the Son has life, he that has not the Son does not have life", 1st John 5:12

[He giveth more grace]

Salvation of the spirit comes down to one thing, Christ in you is salvation.

"He that has the Son has life, he that has not the Son does not have life", 1st John 5:12

...and

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jonh 17:3 KJB

[taylor30]

As a (hopefully) last post on this topic I’d like to share it with you:

Without writing a memoir, as a child and adolescent I was very much influenced by maternal grandparents who escaped the Stalin regime, at that time the Soviet Union. Some of the stories they told me but most I heard after they died since it was just too hard to take. They lived in a world where priests where nailed to the altar, where fake NKVD (KGB) priests heard confessions and sent people to their deaths. Both of my grandparents at their jobs were approached to give up names of those who were not loyal to Stalin, and if they didn’t that meant they would go to the gulags. Scenes of a boy giving up his father to the authorities for being in some “plot” to kill a communist were common. And when the trial ended the beaten-up, father who didn’t confess, seeing his beaten up son gave him bread. The son sank to the father’s knees and cried out, “I told them lies about you,” and that didn’t change anything. Yes, there were people of faith that died for the faith with their arm being cut off, to prevent them from crossing themselves before being shot. And the madness continued….

Yes, I for one am glad that at least the believers in those times were not taught OSAS or Eternal Security - in the sense that Christ died for their sins (the truth) and they were free to live life as they please – for nothing they would do could add their to Salvation. Their faith was a process and acquisition of the Holy Spirit was struggled for and was not believed to be fully in you by simple declaration, but by the fruits produced. I doubt me telling my grandparents at any point of their lives that all they had to do was believe in Christ and that He died for their sins – a solid truth – and cease the struggle, would make them live happily because the OSAS and Eternal Security crowd have a new heart and mind.

What I told you about in the Soviet Union was the truth. Remember the Bible scripture: “What good is it my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can THAT FAITH (emphasis mine) save him?” Jms 2:14 James is not contradicting any other teaching, he simply is placing emphasis on the fact that not all faith can br regarded as being equal. I’m sure there will be disagreements but if you still hold to OSAS or Eternal Security, know that with your pronouncement of faith you have to become Christ like: Yes, if Christ is indeed in us, we can’t take credit for the work because it’s His but you still got to do it.

Oak

PS What gets me about the OSAS crowd is that there doesn’t seem to be a progression leading to the peak of Salvation. An authentic Christian comes around say’s the salvational words and they are eternally saved. Is there any work in becoming an authentic Christian?

Hi Oak, I believe I responded to you before on this subject. That was an interesting post. It is sad and heartbreaking that evils like that exist. I honestly understand why so many people are against the OSAS teaching. To the unknowledgeable student of the word, it can indeed sound like a license to sin which is why I believe people don't like it. However we must remember a few things. #1. People who honestly believe OSAS gives them a license to sin have completely missed the point, and I would seriously question the salvation of someone like that. Scripture is clear that at salvation, we are NEW people with new hearts and desires. If we could return to what we were before, I would say that person's salvation is not real. #2. Salvation is a matter of the heart. Simply saying the sinners prayer means nothing if a true heart is not behind it. There are ni magic words, it is the heart that you recieve salvation, not with the mouth. #3. Being saved from Hell does not mean being saved from punishment. The bible is very clear that we can stil be punished for our sins while on earth AND that we can loose our Heavenly rewards that have been,stored for us. Even if OSAS is true, it by no means lets us off the hook, and those who think it does need need to resd their bible's again. On the last thing you mentioned, even though salvation is instant, faith and Christ likeness as I believe it is talking about, IS a lifelong process and not instant. There are many varying degrees of this. The simplest answer is that those who use OSAS to justify their sin PROVE they were never really saved to begin with.

[nChrist]

Some of the biggest problems people have on this subject is confusion on:

Law vs. Grace

Exhortations for Christian living

Living Testimonies before men

Rewards for works that are more than just Salvation as opposed to works FOR Salvation.

Salvation isolated.

Now For More:

The Holy Spirit of God takes up residence in the heart of a newly saved person and SEALS that heart at the moment of Salvation.

A newly saved person is quickened (translated) into the Body Of Christ at the moment of Salvation.

No person or combination of forces in the universe can break the Seal of the Holy Spirit.

There are no works for Salvation to get it or to keep it.

Jesus Christ completed the work of Salvation on the Cross most perfectly, and man has nothing worthy to add.

Thankfully, we don't have to depend on ourselves for Salvation because no man would be Saved.

Salvation is NOT on the installment plan - you are either Saved or LOST - no in between.

You can't work your way to heaven or be good enough to go to heaven because man's works are as filthy rags.

Faith in Jesus Christ is accounted to a man as righteousness. Apart from this, man has no righteousness of his own.

God's Promises are involved and invoked at the moment of Salvation, and God always keeps His Promises PERFECTLY.

No man is worthy of Salvation, nor can any man become worthy of Salvation, so Salvation has to be a Gift from God and IS.

In short - man is Saved by Faith Alone in Jesus Christ Alone, and He begins a good work in us that He's Promised to COMPLETE PERFECTLY.

All GLORY goes to God - NONE to man, so OSAS is set in CONCRETE that can't be broken.

[He giveth more grace]

You've got it nChrist! I rejoice in that you know the true.

[taylor30]

Well put nChrist, thats what i have been trying to say, but I admit you did a better job. Well done.

[unworthy2]

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? Romans 11:17-24

1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:1-11

also Matthew 25:31-45 - what's the difference between the groups? what they did and did not do.

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

--------------------------------

I'm sorry but any system that says that nothing is required of us is not one I agree with. Any system which allows itself to live any way which we please with no accountability is not one I agree with.

[Michae]

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree? Romans 11:17-24

1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:1-11

also Matthew 25:31-45 - what's the difference between the groups? what they did and did not do.

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

--------------------------------

I'm sorry but any system that says that nothing is required of us is not one I agree with. Any system which allows itself to live any way which we please with no accountability is not one I agree with.

Your quote has a mixture of law and grace, I am curious if you have studied dividing the scriptures in your theology class. Im not trying to be smart just wondering if you have gotten into seperating what is to us and what is for us, such as many places in Romans and you quoted one where Paul is speaking directly to Israel as a nation, it has nothing to do with the born again church. Hope you take this in the spirit it is intended not trying to put you down.

I would like to hear your understanding on dividing the word, thank you.

[He giveth more grace]

I'm sorry but any system that says that nothing is required of us is not one I agree with. Any system which allows itself to live any way which we please with no accountability is not one I agree with.

Well, I would like to shake your hand cause you are mightier than God.

²⁷My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

²⁸And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. ²⁹My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10

To make the statement you did you are swallowed up in pride.

[He giveth more grace]

Well, I would like to shake your hand cause you are mightier than God.

²⁷My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

²⁸And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. ²⁹My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10

To make the statement you did you are swallowed up in pride.

If what he said is full of pride, I would argue that those who believe in OSAS are full of pride, because those who hold to that belief think you have a part in your salvation, in that you must accept Jesus as your Lord and savior, (a work), to be saved. That involves something you do. The only people who believe God is fully in control are those who believe in predestination and election. People in his camp just have a problem with all the people claiming to be saved that live worse than the heathen.

By the way, no man can pluck you out of God's hand, but it doesn't say you can't choose to walk away willingly.

I expected that! Which part of "no man" don't you understand.