Why December 25 is Christmas

[Guest shiloh357]

Who said anything about the story of Jesus being like these stories.

That is what this thread is about. The entire foundation of Christmas as a pagan holiday is rooted in the notion that the life of Jesus and the traditions that surround his birth life, death and resurrection are nothing but a retelling of the same storly line contained in mythology about horus, Tammuz, Adonis, et al.

All of it is based on sloppy, bargain basement research and revisionism. Most of if it is of recent orgin, owing a lot to the trainwreck entitled "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hyslop, Lew White and others.

So you are saying that the OP is based on real scholarship and the book of Luke is what?????

the OP is based on Real Scholarship. I am not setting the OP against the book of Luke. I am setting the OP agaisnt the revisionist information about ancient mythology like the stuff you posted earlier. Real scholarship as contained in the referenced article.

You're saying that Chuck, Tom and David are not qualified scholars...... good grief...

I said they are not scholars.

You are saying that you know more than

Chuck Mussler, Tom Horn and David Wilkerson and the others I quoted....... my oh my.

No, I did not say that. That is a value you are assigning to me. You are the one who called them scholars and they are not. They are teachers and preachers, but they are not scholars, and there is a difference. In fact, I don't recall constradicting them on any point, as you did not provide any real information from them.

[oldzimm]

It don't really matter to me what day Jesus was born, but I'm still gonna celebrate his birth. We can celebrate the birth of Jesus in the spring, summer, fall or winter, it don't matter. Oh I know is that Jesus is saving a lot of us from going to hell and that is enough for me to celebrate his birth.

I'm sure I'm one of those who had a one way ticket to hell if it weren't for Jesus, so thank-you Jesus and 'Happy Birthday".

[other one]

I find it interesting that you are concerned that someone thinks that the story of Jesus follows these pagan traditions and is a problem, when it's your own accepting these pagan things in the birth story of Jesus yourselves and they have nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus's birth.

The reason the non believers can even get by with talking about it is because you guys have bought into the Roman induction of Jesus's birth into the very old pagan religion. It is you guys that make this possible. IF you watch Zeitgeist, the very first thing they do is to tie Jesus's birthday to the date of the birth of the pagan myths....... and the funny thing is that none of them are actually born on December 25. Not Horus nor any of the others....... in the Sumerian stories which combine Nimrod and Gilgamesh it is the day that Semiramis saw the evergreen tree that came up overnight and was decided it was Nimrod.

The very thing that you guys are doing here make it possible for so many people to be deceived by films like this and it hurts spreading the gospel to people who fall for the things like Zeitgeist.

Well you can carry on, for there's really nothing I will be able to do to change things........ but I do ask for God to have mercy on us all.

[Floatingaxe]

Why would God have to extend mercy to those who enjoy honouring the very fact that Jesus came into this world? It isn't a sin. What is a sin is the attempt of those who try to infect the Body of Christ with guilt over it. We all welcome the truth about certain facts, such as the understanding that Jesus was most likely born in September, etc., but we can remember His birth any day we like. We have that liberty.

We aren't to be burdening the Body with nonsensical things. That is Satan's job--that infernal accuser of the brethren.

Romans 14:5

In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

[other one]

You're making it possible for Satan to confuse people about the gospel..... and that's a serious thing.

We were told not to learn the ways of the heathen, to worship our God the ways that the heathen worship their gods and in a way that is really what we do. Is it a sin...... I'll let Jesus decide that, but I know from interfacing with a lot of people that it isn't good.

[oldzimm]

Why would God have to extend mercy to those who enjoy honouring the very fact that Jesus came into this world? It isn't a sin. What is a sin is the attempt of those who try to infect the Body of Christ with guilt over it. We all welcome the truth about certain facts, such as the understanding that Jesus was most likely born in September, etc., but we can remember His birth any day we like. We have that liberty.

We aren't to be burdening the Body with nonsensical things. That is Satan's job--that infernal accuser of the brethren.

Romans 14:5

In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

I don't really recall anyone asking for mercy when we celebrate the birth of Jesus, least I don't. Why ask for what we already have, when we accept Jesus as our savior and repent of our sins, we have been forgiven. I just think it is great that Christians all over the world can pick one day out of the year to celebrate the birth of Jesus, now if everybody wants to celebrate the birth of Jesus someday in September................it's okay with me.

[Muddycamo]

Interesting debate.

[Floatingaxe]

You're making it possible for Satan to confuse people about the gospel..... and that's a serious thing.

That's not true. In fact, the unsaved and confused around me know that I seriously consider the birth of the world's Messiah, and they are invited to worship Him.

We were told not to learn the ways of the heathen, to worship our God the ways that the heathen worship their gods and in a way that is really what we do. Is it a sin...... I'll let Jesus decide that, but I know from interfacing with a lot of people that it isn't good.

The heathen are doing whatever they wish according to custom. They do not worship Jesus Christ. We do. We bless His heart and He blesses ours.

[Floatingaxe]

Why would God have to extend mercy to those who enjoy honouring the very fact that Jesus came into this world? It isn't a sin. What is a sin is the attempt of those who try to infect the Body of Christ with guilt over it. We all welcome the truth about certain facts, such as the understanding that Jesus was most likely born in September, etc., but we can remember His birth any day we like. We have that liberty.

We aren't to be burdening the Body with nonsensical things. That is Satan's job--that infernal accuser of the brethren.

Romans 14:5

In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

I don't really recall anyone asking for mercy when we celebrate the birth of Jesus, least I don't. Why ask for what we already have, when we accept Jesus as our savior and repent of our sins, we have been forgiven. I just think it is great that Christians all over the world can pick one day out of the year to celebrate the birth of Jesus, now if everybody wants to celebrate the birth of Jesus someday in September................it's okay with me.

I was responding to this remark by other one:

Well you can carry on, for there's really nothing I will be able to do to change things........ but I do ask for God to have mercy on us all.

I agree with you! As born again Christians joining hearts and minds in celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ tomorrow, we bless God and are edified in return!

[Guest shiloh357]

You're making it possible for Satan to confuse people about the gospel..... and that's a serious thing.

We were told not to learn the ways of the heathen, to worship our God the ways that the heathen worship their gods and in a way that is really what we do. Is it a sin...... I'll let Jesus decide that, but I know from interfacing with a lot of people that it isn't good.

Really?? Well then, to be consistent, you need to stop going to church. The word "church" is anglicized from a Teutonic word that means "circle." The ancient Druids used to meet in a "kirke" every first day of the week to worship the son. The word Kirke is directly related to the circle of the sun.

So you will need to cease your pagainistic churchgoing. Oh and don't celebrate the resurrection of Jesus cause that isn't commanded in the Bible either.

Can you not see just how ridiculous the whole "pagan" notion is??? God commanded Israel not to adopt overt pagan ritualism, such as boiling baby goats in the milk of their mother, constructing images of Him and worshipping said images. He commanded Israelite priests not to tatoo images of gods on tjheir bodies like the pagan priests did, or to practice necromancy, diviniation, and other such occultic practices. That is what God was talking about.

Christmas is, for the most part only 700 years old and originated in Christian Europe. The Christmas tree, the nativity scene, and all of that are only around 700 years old and have nothing to do with ancient near east pagan practices.

I find it interesting that you are concerned that someone thinks that the story of Jesus follows these pagan traditions and is a problem, when it's your own accepting these pagan things in the birth story of Jesus yourselves and they have nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus's birth.

Okay, the grammar of that sentence is a bit choppy and convoluted but I will try to respond to what I think you are saying.

My point is that there is no similariy to the birth narrative or the narrative of any part of Jesus' life and that of the pagan gods. I demonstrated that fact with Adonis. The information YOU posted was wrong and I presented one example of it. I don't have any pagan traditions connected to the birth of Jesus. Christmas as a holiday originated in Christian Europe, mainly in Germany. It has no connection with paganism. That is simply a bogus claim made by people who have no real knowledge of history.

The reason the non believers can even get by with talking about it is because you guys have bought into the Roman induction of Jesus's birth into the very old pagan religion. It is you guys that make this possible.

Sorry but that is historically implausible because Christmas' orgins do not go back to ancient Roman paganism.

IF you watch Zeitgeist, the very first thing they do is to tie Jesus's birthday to the date of the birth of the pagan myths....... and the funny thing is that none of them are actually born on December 25. Not Horus nor any of the others....... in the Sumerian stories which combine Nimrod and Gilgamesh it is the day that Semiramis saw the evergreen tree that came up overnight and was decided it was Nimrod.

I see, and that is why I don't believe conspiracy theories have any credibility. They are not based on facts, but on revisionism and in some cases outright deception.