Understanding Job?

[jesussaves]

One of the things that blesses me most about Job is not just his faithfulness to the Lord during great trying times, but it was his willingness to forgive his false accusers and pray for them. Matter of fact, it wasn't until Job prayed for his friends that the Lord blessed him with healing and restoration.

"And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends, and the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before." Job 42:10

"If thy brother sin against thee, how many times should you forgive him?" 70x7

I also can see Job living out the Beatitudes.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peace makers, for they shall be called the sons of God.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:3-10

[tsth]

Dear jesussaves,

Thank you for bringing this one back up..........you don't know how timely it is for me! And yes, the focus of Job's heart at the end of the story, has not even been addressed. I'm glad you mentioned it, it is most certainly something to think about and learn from.

tsth,quote:

Hebrews 5:8

Although He was a son, he learned obedience from what He suffered..........(cross ref. Hebrews 12:11)

Are we learning "obedience" from our sufferings?

That is the operative question.

Obedience to God, the Holy Spirit is the expression of our faith -

tsth, quote:

I have to admit, I was a little taken aback by that passage about Christ. Were you?

That is so provocative and profound.

It gives me a lot to meditate on. . .

How do you understand that, Suzanne ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is what most Christians are not told at first, that there is much suffering in being a Christian as well. I am finding it especially difficult in these last days, and the wickedness increases and love grows cold, and many turning from the faith. This is extremely hard to watch and endure. It is suffering to me, to experience our world changing and as a Christian, feeling SO OUT OF PLACE. This to me, is suffering, as we become more peculiar and isolated. But God clearly speaks to us to tell us to remember that we have not suffered to THIS DEGREE:

Hebrews 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.

4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

I think I will go and meditate on Hebrews 12 now. Thanks again jesussaves. I needed this.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest Bro David™]

I was going through some of tsth's posts looking for symbolism of the tree thingy.

I found this little gem.

I am bumping this up for our Brother Dan.

I hope this somehow helps him.

YBIC

[dgolvach]

Job.....and I thought had problems. Actually this book is sorta like Ecclesiastes in the sence that it is so relavent to the very situations a person might find himself in in 2005. Hopfully not as bad as Job. There is a very interesting verse at the end. Job 42:12-13.

12 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys. 13 And he also had seven sons and three daughters. 14 The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch. 15 Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job's daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their brothers.

This passage clearly states that God blessed Job "more" than the first. At first he had 10 kids. But at the end he gets 10 kids? Not more. But I think there might be a teaching here about life after death and one's status in a family tree. I have heard differing opinions on this. The one I tend to go with is that Job actually had 20 kids but the first 10 were not with him on earth. Yet he is still their father after they were taken. Any thoughts? We still are family after we die?

God Bless

Dan

[Guest peh]

Interesting study so far.

I too had many questions about Job and utterly rejected the theories that say God and the devil both had designs on Job. I've even read material that say that God and the devil had a bet on how Job would react to the onslaught. Of course both are outrageous and ignorant of both the character of God and of the enemy.

I would say though that there was a reason for God's having called the enemy's attention to Job. He says it himself in 6:29 "Yes, concede, my righteousness still stands!" It is addressed again in chapter 32:1. "So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes."

It appears that Job had a serious defect, not one that would have been obvious to man, but instead a cause of admiration for Job. For instance, Job says in 29:7 "When I went out to the gate by the city, When I took my seat in the open square, 8 The young men saw me and hid, And the aged arose and stood; 9 The princes refrained from talking, And put their hand on their mouth; 10 The voice of nobles was hushed, And their tongue stuck to the roof of their mouth. 11 When the ear heard, then it blessed me, And when the eye saw, then it approved me...

But it had to have been an extremely serious defect before God, though God chose not to reveal it to the enemy, and I believe satan didn't have any idea he was to be used to correct that defect in Job. But that is the outcome: Job came from the self-righteousness in chap 32 to (chapter 40:4) saying, ""Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth. "

But first, God had to send satan to strike at the heart of all Job had, Elihu to reason with him, and then had to speak to Job Himself in words that were nearly too hard for Job to hear and still ring thruout the ages to our own ears: chap 40:7 "Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me: 8 "Would you indeed annul My judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified? 9 Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His?

Finally, finally, finally Job got it. God help us if we are in anyway in a similar defective state and are blind, deaf and dumb to it!!! Rather a hundred times to fall before Him and confess our unrighteousness than even to "receive double for our trouble" as some preachers say happened with Job.

Also, it doesn't appear the "friends" of Job were chastised or in need of prayer from Job because they spoke falsely of him, as someone posted earlier, but because they spoke falsely of God Himself. See chap 42: 8 Now therefore, take for yourselves seven bulls and seven rams, go to My servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to your folly; because you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has."

[tsth]

It is interesting in terms of the similarities of Job and lives of today. I personally wanted to also add this. It is an excerpt from another thread I started titled, "Tearing Down and Rebuilding" of a Christian, of myself.

As my husband and I personally experienced something much like this in terms of our involvement in the current day church and Christianity. We walked among our brothers. We were looked up to, just as Job. But, the Lord chose to show us something very different than what we perceived about ourselves and our worship. Much in the same way He did to Job:

The Lord gave me understanding in His Word this morning regarding this newness that is beginning to be formed within.

It is much the same as what took place with Job.

[tsth]

Oh yes, and one other thing that was so outstanding to me in the Book of Job, was the discourse and teaching on the issue of pride, and THE ONE the Lord uses to deal with pride. He is described in detail in Job 41, and to me, I found it to be pretty terrifying.

Pride/evil is such a hard and concrete matter that the Lord institutes one to deal with it:

Job 41

15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved. 24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

Here is the essence of that one:

33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear. 34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

Evil are the children of pride.

In His Truth,

Suzanne

Edited May 24, 2005 by tsth

[Pilgrim7]

All of Scripture is to teach us about God. I believe that the experience of Job parallels closely the experience of Jesus. He gave up all, lost all, was rejected by all for a time, even God turned His back on Him for a time, and yet 'for the joy set before Him, endured the cross, dispising the shame and is set down on the right hand of God'. And He is our example, we pick up His cross, deny ourselves, lose our life of self through crucifixion of self, and are resurrected with Him and live the life of Christ on this earth. I believe all who do this will experience to some extent the the same thing that Job did.

All in the name of Christ,

Dennis

[Peace_Maker]

Another thing that needs to be pointed out is the self righteousness of Job. He argued with God proclaiming his own righteousness. When we get to the point that we are dependant on our own righteousness more than Gods Righteousness and start arguing with God in this way, we are in for a mighty fall. When we argue with God in this way we are saying that we believe we are more righteous than God himself. Our own righteousness can never save us! We must be dependant on Gods righteousness ONLY! and in the Christians case we must plead Gods righteousness through Jesus Christ. Our own righteousness stinks, its pride and arrogance.

It wasn

[Guest Bro David™]

I would like to add a very subtle point that often goes overlooked.

Job whined.

He even went so far has to say that he Regretted being Born.

1: But Job answered and said,

2: Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!

3: For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.

4: For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

5: Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?

6: Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?

7: The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.

8: Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!

9: Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!

10: Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.

11: What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?

12: Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?

13: Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?

14: To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.

15: My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;

16: Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:

17: What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.

18: The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.

19: The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.

20: They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.

21: For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.

22: Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?

23: Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?

24: Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.

25: How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?

But In the End He understood that one should Hold His tounge.

YBIC