Dancing in the Spirit or Dancing for Show?

[Fearfully1derfullyMade]

I understand and agree completely agree with what you are saying, but I'm not talking about literal "Shouting".

In the churches that I grew up in and even on spiritual TV, like TBN, Daystar etc; some Christians refer to their dancing in the Spirit as "Shoutin".

I never heard of this.

What churches did you grow up in?

I don't know if this is a denominational thing or what, but I've witnessed people jumping up and dancing (Shoutin)during the preaching/teaching portion of the church service.

Hmmm...the only thing that comes to mind is what some black (African American - or whatever term we are supposed to use these days? Sorry, just confused) congregations. But in those services it seems the "Shoutin" is encouraged, with the instruments playing and everything.

I've asked my relative why they do this and their response was that " It's the Holy Ghost". Again I don't believe that.

Well, without being there are seeing it or knowing the person, I can't accurately assess the situation. It could simply be a matter of a person like me who loves to be wild and crazy when excited (we're the nuts at the sports events, too!) just feeling joyful in the Lord and expressing that through the physical body. I've known that, but only during worship.

The Lord meets us in different ways, depending on who we are or where we're at. Some of us just happen to be nuts and popcorn and jumping beans.

Just something to consider in this.

Well I don't believe that it's a matter of ethnicity, this is more about false doctrine. As far as what you are supposed to call us, I don't speak for my ethnic group, sorry, I just don't. I guess my thinking is just not that narrow. People are people to me and to say that false teaching, preaching or doctrine is associated with one race is just unacceptable, rude and ignorant.

I am trying to have a civilized conversation with people of the same faith. Race should not even be an issue, but I'm not naive to the fact that everyone is on a different level of spiritual growth. However, open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed. With that said, I personally, would appreciate it if you would refer to me as a human being, person(s), believer, sister in Christ or my name, Fearfully1derfullyMade.

[nebula]

Well I don't believe that it's a matter of ethnicity, this is more about false doctrine. As far as what you are supposed to call us, I don't speak for my ethnic group, sorry, I just don't. I guess my thinking is just not that narrow. People are people to me and to say that false teaching, preaching or doctrine is associated with one race is just unacceptable, rude and ignorant.

I am trying to have a civilized conversation with people of the same faith. Race should not even be an issue, but I'm not naive to the fact that everyone is on a different level of spiritual growth. However, open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed. With that said, I personally, would appreciate it if you would refer to me as a human being, person(s), believer, sister in Christ or my name, Fearfully1derfullyMade.

Oh no, I did it again. Shuffling around pieces of data in my nerdy brain a farted with my mouth.

I didn't know your ethnicity.

Please forgive me.

I hope this explains my train of thought without burying myself deeper.

Where I live, it is so PC that people will bite your head off if you give the wrong "title" or descriptive words, and sometimes that changes so much I never know what the "proper" word is anymore. And then some people prefer one word while other people prefer the other one. And then one friend I've talked to said she doesn't care which is used. So I do not know how to "properly" describe things anymore. I did not mean it derogatorily to anyone. I especially had no desire to offend you. I feel horrible that I did.

When I think of "race" I think of culture, and there's nothing wrong with it.

My mention of black churches was my trying to understand what you were speaking of, to understand what you were referring to, because I had never seen such in person. The references for my thinking were what I have seen in some videos. The only music videos that comes to mind by title are 1955 by Carman and scenes from the movie The Apostle. I may have seen things in other movies or sermon clips. Carman has another song where he tells the story of Pentecost but (quote) "as if the apostles were black" (his description) - complete with organ playing along with the preaching and everyone participating with "Amen" and such throughout it all. My attempt was to figure out where you were coming from, not to make any judgments on anyone.

False teaching, preaching, and doctrine though? Did I allude to that in anything that I said? I was speaking of people like me who like to go wild and crazy when we are happy and excited. This is a personality issue. Please explain where I associated false teaching and preaching and doctrine with race?

I hope this clears things up a little?

Or maybe I should just crawl under a rock. . . .

[Fearfully1derfullyMade]

Well I don't believe that it's a matter of ethnicity, this is more about false doctrine. As far as what you are supposed to call us, I don't speak for my ethnic group, sorry, I just don't. I guess my thinking is just not that narrow. People are people to me and to say that false teaching, preaching or doctrine is associated with one race is just unacceptable, rude and ignorant.

I am trying to have a civilized conversation with people of the same faith. Race should not even be an issue, but I'm not naive to the fact that everyone is on a different level of spiritual growth. However, open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed. With that said, I personally, would appreciate it if you would refer to me as a human being, person(s), believer, sister in Christ or my name, Fearfully1derfullyMade.

Oh no, I did it again. Shuffling around pieces of data in my nerdy brain a farted with my mouth.

I didn't know your ethnicity.

Please forgive me.

I hope this explains my train of thought without burying myself deeper.

Where I live, it is so PC that people will bite your head off if you give the wrong "title" or descriptive words, and sometimes that changes so much I never know what the "proper" word is anymore. And then some people prefer one word while other people prefer the other one. And then one friend I've talked to said she doesn't care which is used. So I do not know how to "properly" describe things anymore. I did not mean it derogatorily to anyone. I especially had no desire to offend you. I feel horrible that I did.

When I think of "race" I think of culture, and there's nothing wrong with it.

My mention of black churches was my trying to understand what you were speaking of, to understand what you were referring to, because I had never seen such in person. The references for my thinking were what I have seen in some videos. The only music videos that comes to mind by title are 1955 by Carman and scenes from the movie The Apostle. I may have seen things in other movies or sermon clips. Carman has another song where he tells the story of Pentecost but (quote) "as if the apostles were black" (his description) - complete with organ playing along with the preaching and everyone participating with "Amen" and such throughout it all. My attempt was to figure out where you were coming from, not to make any judgments on anyone.

False teaching, preaching, and doctrine though? Did I allude to that in anything that I said? I was speaking of people like me who like to go wild and crazy when we are happy and excited. This is a personality issue. Please explain where I associated false teaching and preaching and doctrine with race?

I hope this clears things up a little?

Or maybe I should just crawl under a rock. . . .

No, it's ok.

It's just that I have also seen Caucasian and people of other races do these dances. That's why I said that maybe it's a denominational thing. I've seen people "Shout" in mostly charismatic denomination congregations( i.e. Pentecostal, Baptist etc...).

Now, I've changed from Pentecostal to Non-Denominational. I don't really notice this dancing ritual in the church that I attended, unless it's a visitor from another denominational church.

[HisMindinme]

You are not yet seeing the point of the matter and that is presently alright. God is your revealing agent, not me.

You appear to have taken a greater offense because I switched some words. I do hope you do not think I am considering what I wrote and being equal to scripture? What was written was simply to illustrate a point and not to somehow invent or concoct new scripture equal to what is clearly Spirit-derived.

Oh yes -- I believe in plain spoken words like: "I believe in the completeness and fullness of Scripture ..." Perhaps you can ask yourself if saying "verbal plenary inspiration" is "showing off"?

You are loved in Christ, brother Steven! The admonition above is simply an observation and not an accusation. You stand or fall before Christ and not me. Oh yes -- and lest we forget -- I stand and fall before Christ and not you. We are brothers in Christ and not co-judges of each other.

Peace and Love in His Spirit to you all!

I used to make the mistake of reading emotion into writings, but try less of that now! It is an assuming sort of practice... Thank you for your expression of love! I did not know the use of verbal plenary inspiration was a show off thing but a concept derived from learning and used for abbreviated speaking. Study to show thyself approved... This forum is for growing in fellowship of His Word and gleaning the richness of each individual here! Some come with more baggage than others but all in all an excellent exercise in growth in Christ as it teaches us to always respond with God's Love in mind first. Now the ability of writing- intent is sometime misconstrued and that is why I try not to read emotion into writings for the added confusion and harm of improper response could bring! My entire desire here is for building up and pointing to spiritual directives that are not always brought to view...

In your case

Romans 14:(3) The one dancing, do not despise the one not dancing. And the one not dancing, do not judge the one dancing, for God received him.

If you all will allow me the liberty to change the words eating to dancing and see if the shoe fits?

clearly your saying it was not your intent but as the quote indicates it was what you did! So all that has passed between us is that you have violated your own intent. There are small ones here that read these post and could walk away thinking it is okay to move around or exchange words in Scripture and it is ok to do that cause.... So clearly by both our understandings it is not! Judging what you write is not judging you! We are to address the writing and not the person as the rules we have agreed to by the very fact of being members here! Love, Steven

True enough for our human level discussion, brother. It humbling to be human. What is very clear to me is that we will all have these details and matters handled quite handily by the Lord so enough. Thus, I am more and more aware of not wanting to quibble with things too much. Our greater portion is our capacity for love and fellowship, the peace in His Spirit between us both and all. I count your fellowship to be of greater value, than splitting hairs on this matter.

Much peace and love in Christ to you, brother Steven.

[nebula]

No, it's ok.

[UncleAbee]

The HG does not cause you to dance. When people say this they are mistaken. When the HG hits miracles happen. The HG causes the church to move, shift, and change as a whole. This phenomena of dancing in the Spirit is purely emotional. You can find no scripture where the HG compelled anyone to dance. This does not mean that there is anything wrong with dancing. You just need to understand that dancing is a result of your own emotional condition and you can control it. The Pentecostal church teaches that this dancing (amongst other charismatic items) is compelled by the HS. They are teaching false doctrine. THe HG does not compell you to dance, clap your hands, roll on the floor, run around the church, shout, howl or whatever else emotional display you do. These are all results of your own emotional state during service.

[nebula]

These are all results of your own emotional state during service.

Yeah, and the emotion is called JOY!!!!

It's amazing what pure joy released will do.

It is so freeing just being made to laugh and laugh and laugh . . . . Did you know there is healing in laughter?

And you know something? If the Lord can rejoice and sing over us (Zephaniah 3:17), why can't we rejoice and sing back to Him?

[mizzdy]

Question, what about 2 samuel 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

It seemed to me David danced with no regard to who was watching him except the Lord,

The issue here was that David was a King and dressed common and dancing around with child like joy was disdained by the system in place as how a king should act but not to God Who received His Worship and Praise! Love, Steven

Thats not exactly true, it was not the system nor the elders but Mikhal, "As the ark of ADONAI entered the City of David, Mikhal the daughter of Sha'ul, watching from the window, saw King David leaping and spinning before ADONAI; and she was filled with contempt for him." There was no restriction on dancing before God, David took off the ephod, he was so overcomed by joy, by the presence of the ark he could not contain himself and wanted to worship Him. So it was not the legal system nor Gods Torah that says dancing to Him is wrong but man.

[mizzdy]

The HG does not cause you to dance. When people say this they are mistaken. When the HG hits miracles happen. The HG causes the church to move, shift, and change as a whole. This phenomena of dancing in the Spirit is purely emotional. You can find no scripture where the HG compelled anyone to dance. This does not mean that there is anything wrong with dancing. You just need to understand that dancing is a result of your own emotional condition and you can control it. The Pentecostal church teaches that this dancing (amongst other charismatic items) is compelled by the HS. They are teaching false doctrine. THe HG does not compell you to dance, clap your hands, roll on the floor, run around the church, shout, howl or whatever else emotional display you do. These are all results of your own emotional state during service.

I can agree that the Spirit is not going to lead anyone into barking like a dog, rolling around like a circus act or even falling backwards when a man touches a head. But I disagree that He does not over come us and we clap, sing, play tamborines, or even dance or sway while we are singing and worshipping Him. If thats the case King David sure made a mockery of God when He danced before the ark as they brought it back. Even my staunchly conservative husband who doesnt do any of that but finds himself swaying as we sing in worship of Him, course he might deny that we notice that too.

Of course its emotional, joy, happiness, those things are emotions and if we cannot be moved by those things given by the Spirit what does that say about us? I would question someone getting up and dancing or any of that during the teaching times except perhaps to say a amen or hallelujah but during worship! I dont at all. Of course if the person(s) are running around acting the fool maybe theres something more going on there.

At my fellowship we have woman dancing in what we call Davidic dancing, we have others including myself who are clapping swaying and singing, others have tamborines keeping time to the music. I have to tell you its the best! simply the best, we have people come from all over the country travelling through, travelling preachers also who always comment that we have one of the best worship times they have been too.

Theres a difference in dancing before the Lord and dancing for oneself.

shalom,

Mizz

[Openly Curious]

Please help me with this one, because this really bothers me amongst many other things in the Body of Christ.

1. Scripture does not condemn dancing as a physical activity. Mostly, references to dancing have to do with rejoicing and being happy. It is a response in us and a means of expressing how we feel.

2. There is no scriptural reference to "dancing in the Spirit" in any form. This is not a "gift of the Spirit."

Paul writes these words:

Rom 14:1-8 And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts. (2) One indeed believes to eat all things, but being weak, another one eats vegetables. (3) The one eating, do not despise the one not eating. And the one not eating, do not judge the one eating, for God received him. (4) Who are you judging another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. But he will stand, for God is able to make him stand. (5) One indeed judges a day above another day; and another one judges every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. (6) The one minding the day, he minds it to the Lord. And the one not minding the day, he does not mind it to the Lord. The one eating, he eats to the Lord; for he gives thanks to God. And the one not eating, he does not eat to the Lord, and gives thanks to God. (7) For no one of us lives to himself and no one dies to himself. (8) For both if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Then both if we live, and if we die, we are the Lord's.

I am NOT going to condemn the one dancing, even if I find it to be a sign of weakness in the faith. The one dancing to and before the Lord dances to and before the Lord. No -- rather, I will forbear the one dancing in hopes of sharing with them what the Lord has revealed and they will gain in inward wisdom and strength to know for themselves what they ought to do and be before the Lord Jesus Christ on their own before Him. I am NOT their judge -- He is.

My hope is to share the faith as I know it of God, by His Spirit and that together we all will grow up to the head, which is Christ -- becoming transformed inwardly to His likeness. So, those who dance -- dance. Know that you will be accepted, loved and shared with. In the sharing, we will all grow up and grow stronger. That's my prayer and my hope.

Romans 14:(3) The one dancing, do not despise the one not dancing. And the one not dancing, do not judge the one dancing, for God received him.

If you all will allow me the liberty to change the words eating to dancing and see if the shoe fits?

I think you really need to examine the difference from eating which is necessary to continue the body here and dancing which is an expression from the body. So to exchange concepts within the Scripture you have in fact changed context of original to something else! Love, Steven

:amen: