He Did Away With The Law

[OneLight]

It really is a matter of understanding the connotation of the word "fulfilled".

Luk 4:17-21 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor." And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. And he began to say to them, "Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."

Had it been 'fulfilled' to completion? Of course not. There is still a lot more that Christ did after this. In fact, just a few verses down in the same chapter we find Jesus setting free a man who had an unclean spirit.

And we know, that even today, we as His followers are still proclaiming that which He started, liberty.

So the word "fulfilled" does not mean that there is nothing left to be done, but rather that what had been told would happen is taking place.

The law still works in the lives of the sinner to this very day; it is in the process of being fulfilled.

"fulfilled" is a statement of that which was once prophesy becoming that which "is" and no longer a thing of the future, but rather a thing of the present.

I would argue that it does mean there is more to be done when something is not fulfilled. Ask yourself why Christ would even include "till heaven and earth pass away"? That is at the end of what we know as earth, past the Great White Throne Judgment, not at his crucifix.

Christ fulfilled the law in accordance to our sin punishment if we accept Him. He did not do away with the law at all.

[OneLight]

As I read through this thread, all that I can think of is this ...

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Me too! I've been thinking about this all morning and kept coming back to these verses.

If the Lord had done away with the 'old' law, He wouldn't have said that the law was hanging on loving others as yourself. The law wouldn't be hanging on anything!

Remember, the law was still in effect when he said that.

The law wasn't set aside (Heb 7:18) until his death, when it was all accomplished.

How do you read this verse?

Matthew 5:18

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

All of that is thoroughly addressed here. You will find Mt 5:17-18 near the bottom, after the last bullet.

I don't agree that all is fulfilled, otherwise, the New Heaven and the New Earth would be here, the Great White Throne Judgment would of happened, Satan would of been thrown into the lake of fire, the 1000 years would of already been over with and His return and the rapture would of happened. There is a lot left to do, so it is not all fulfilled.

Jesus fulfilled the OT.

Jesus stood in our place, taking upon Himself our punishment, fulfilling our payment. He fulfilled our sin payment, not the OT.

[OneLight]

1Cr 9:1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?

1Cr 9:2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

1Cr 9:3 This is my defense to those who would examine me.

1Cr 9:4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink?

1Cr 9:5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?

1Cr 9:6 Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?

1Cr 9:7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?

1Cr 9:8 Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same?

1Cr 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned?

1Cr 9:10 Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop.

1Cr 9:11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?

1Cr 9:12 If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.

1Cr 9:13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?

1Cr 9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

We misunderstand that just because the penalty of not keeping the law to perfection was taken upon Christ, that somehow the effectiveness and the direct implications of the law still have the intended effect today. If it were not so, why would Paul had said it was "written for us", and why would he had said it was their "right"?

But indeed, love triumphs over sin and just because they would not see the truth and reason behind the law Paul would not let it effect his love and devotion to them. He would rather not take the right set forth than to put a stumbling block in front of the believers thinking they had to "obey" the law in order to receive righteousness.

You misunderstand my stance on this. I am not saying we are under the law. What I am saying is that the law has not been done away with. Christ took all the law and prophets and put them into two commandments. He did not do away with the law. You also have to divide which laws were for the Jewish Nation only, and what is for everyone.

“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

[NathanH]

You misunderstand my stance on this. I am not saying we are under the law. What I am saying is that the law has not been done away with. Christ took all the law and prophets and put them into two commandments. He did not do away with the law. You also have to divide which laws were for the Jewish Nation only, and what is for everyone.

“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

No worries. I may not understand you completely, but we are in agreement (along with Paul) that we are not "under" the law. Otherwise, if it was a matter of righteousness, he would have been very truthful with them that they should do as the law says and provide for his (and others) needs as they were ministering to them. But instead, he did not want to lay a stumbling block before them, making them think they had to 'keep' the law in order for righteousness sake.

If Christ had put ALL the law into two commandments then Paul would be falsely saying something about the law of Moses. And especially saying that it was written for them, for the ministers of the Gospel. If that's the case, then how can we trust anything that Paul says.

I do not, however, buy into the Jewish nation versus Gentile nation. We are one in Christ.

[OneLight]

You misunderstand my stance on this. I am not saying we are under the law. What I am saying is that the law has not been done away with. Christ took all the law and prophets and put them into two commandments. He did not do away with the law. You also have to divide which laws were for the Jewish Nation only, and what is for everyone.

“‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

No worries. I may not understand you completely, but we are in agreement (along with Paul) that we are not "under" the law. Otherwise, if it was a matter of righteousness, he would have been very truthful with them that they should do as the law says and provide for his (and others) needs as they were ministering to them. But instead, he did not want to lay a stumbling block before them, making them think they had to 'keep' the law in order for righteousness sake.

If Christ had put ALL the law into two commandments then Paul would be falsely saying something about the law of Moses. And especially saying that it was written for them, for the ministers of the Gospel. If that's the case, then how can we trust anything that Paul says.

I do not, however, buy into the Jewish nation versus Gentile nation. We are one in Christ.

I hope you understand that when I spoke of laws pertaining to the Jewish nation, I was speaking of laws pertaining to the Levitical Priesthood, as an example. This is in comparison to the Ten Commandments that pertain to all.

[alien224]

Col. 2:14

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Paul is making an allusion to crucifixion. The Romans would nail the laws a person violated to their cross so that people could see why there were being crucified and this would act as a deterrant for others to do the same.

The point Paul is making is that the commandments we broke were nailed to Jesus' cross thus our violation of those laws were imputed to Him. He bore the punishment for our violation of God's commandments.

Paul is not saying that Mosaic law was nailed to the cross. The Mosaic law was never the problem. The purpose of the Mosaic law was to show us our sin and it did exactly what God designed it to do. It was our violation of God's law that was the problem.

If the law needed to be done away with, if getting rid of God's law would have solved the problem, Jesus would not have needed to die to accomplish that. Jesus death was necessary to pay for our sin, not to eradicate God's law.

In total agreement

Agreed.

Yep

No he didn't do away with the Law

As with anything you have to have the old before you can really enjoy the New. The Mosiac Laws were what were needed for the time. They were used to show man the sin and how on our own we could never live up to salvation. When Jesus Came the Mosiac laws were made new because Jesus became the blood sacrifice for our sins and praise be to God we do not have to make our own blood sracfices because of our salvation we can enjoy the peace we have in Jesus Christ. ( Knowing how the law was and how imposible it is for us to to try to stay sin free without Jesus precious blood.) It is not that the Law was don away with it was that that kind of sacrifice was no longer needed. When you say the Law was done away with does that mean that many of the foundations in the old testament are done away with (such as the commandments?) No The old testament is needed because it is the foundation for the New Testament. You just can't have the New without the old.

[NathanH]

I hope you understand that when I spoke of laws pertaining to the Jewish nation, I was speaking of laws pertaining to the Levitical Priesthood, as an example. This is in comparison to the Ten Commandments that pertain to all.

I did not want to assume. But I do understand now. lol. I still believe that all are one in Christ, and those who are of the Jewish nation do not have the laws of the Levitical Priesthood "over" them anymore. I believe that those laws are complete in Christ. I believe any "laws" that are so today are for all. I do not see where there is a line of distinction drawn anymore.

Does that mean that there are not those who observe certain "laws" today differently in the Jewish nation, yet are still believers in Christ? Certainly, I believe so. But they do so because it is a part of who they are and have been. It does nothing more for them, and does nothing less for us who do not observe them.

Righteousness is apart from ALL laws. It is imparted to us apart from all laws. There is nothing "wrong" with the laws. They are perfect. Which is what Paul was clearly stating to the Corinthians. If they(the entire law) had been "fulfilled" in the sense of being done away with after Christ died, then Paul was speaking heresy and against what he had proclaimed to other people. He did not state one of the "ten commandments", he quoted one of the laws that most say are not supposed to be even given a second thought.

There are even some that think that if you were to "do" one of the laws of Moses, then you are putting yourself in the position that you have to keep all of them. That could not be further from the truth. If you were to "do" one of them in the hopes of gaining righteousness, then you are obligated to keep the whole law (which is impossible).

The simplicity is that the laws of God stand forever. And forever means....forever. However, there is no righteousness to be gain in anyway shape or form from them. None. And that is the way it has been since they were given. The only "change" that took place was the priesthood. The priesthood was replaced with a single priest who presides over us forever. The same forever that is descriptive of Gods laws.

Psa 119:150 They draw near who persecute me with evil purpose; they are far from your law.

Psa 119:151 But you are near, O LORD, and all your commandments are true.

Psa 119:152 Long have I known from your testimonies that you have founded them forever.

Psa 119:153 [Resh] Look on my affliction and deliver me, for I do not forget your law.

Psa 119:154 Plead my cause and redeem me; give me life according to your promise!

Psa 119:155 Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek your statutes.

Psa 119:156 Great is your mercy, O LORD; give me life according to your rules.

Psa 119:157 Many are my persecutors and my adversaries, but I do not swerve from your testimonies.

Psa 119:158 I look at the faithless with disgust, because they do not keep your commands.

Psa 119:159 Consider how I love your precepts! Give me life according to your steadfast love.

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

Psa 119:161 [sin and Shin] Princes persecute me without cause, but my heart stands in awe of your words.

Psa 119:162 I rejoice at your word like one who finds great spoil.

Psa 119:163 I hate and abhor falsehood, but I love your law.

Psa 119:164 Seven times a day I praise you for your righteous rules.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have those who love your law; nothing can make them stumble.

Psa 119:166 I hope for your salvation, O LORD, and I do your commandments.

Psa 119:167 My soul keeps your testimonies; I love them exceedingly.

Psa 119:168 I keep your precepts and testimonies, for all my ways are before you.

Psa 119:169 [Taw] Let my cry come before you, O LORD; give me understanding according to your word!

Psa 119:170 Let my plea come before you; deliver me according to your word.

Psa 119:171 My lips will pour forth praise, for you teach me your statutes.

Psa 119:172 My tongue will sing of your word, for all your commandments are right.

Psa 119:173 Let your hand be ready to help me, for I have chosen your precepts.

Psa 119:174 I long for your salvation, O LORD, and your law is my delight.

Psa 119:175 Let my soul live and praise you, and let your rules help me.

Psa 119:176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek your servant, for I do not forget your commandments.

The Psalmist understood this. He understood that righteousness does not come from the commandments. He understood that it was imparted to a person aside from the 'keeping' of them. And he also understood that there are times when people will stray from the commandments, but he never makes the excuse that because righteousness is imparted apart from the keeping that the commandments are not true; and most importantly, he states that they are forever.

One has to ask himself this question; will your personal testimony ever change? Will it not be something that is forever? Then why would we think that God's "testimonies" will ever change? God has, and will, never change.

[OneLight]

As I read through this thread, all that I can think of is this ...

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Me too! I've been thinking about this all morning and kept coming back to these verses.

If the Lord had done away with the 'old' law, He wouldn't have said that the law was hanging on loving others as yourself. The law wouldn't be hanging on anything!

Remember, the law was still in effect when he said that.

The law wasn't set aside (Heb 7:18) until his death, when it was all accomplished

How do you read this verse?

Matthew 5:18

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

All of that is thoroughly addressed here. You will find Mt 5:17-18 near the bottom, after the last bullet.

I don't agree that all is fulfilled, otherwise, the New Heaven and the New Earth would be here, the Great White Throne Judgment would of happened, Satan would of been thrown into the lake of fire, the 1000 years would of already been over with and His return and the rapture would of happened. There is a lot left to do, so it is not all fulfilled.

Jesus fulfilled the OT.

Jesus stood in our place, taking upon Himself our punishment, fulfilling our payment. He fulfilled our sin payment, not the OT.

Let me rephrase. What Jesus fulfilled was in the OT--prophecies regarding Messiah, patterns in the ceremonial laws, perfect righteousness of the moral law.

This I can agree with!

[th1bill]

The law wasn't set aside (Heb 7:18) until his death, when it was all accomplished.

I know and have said that this is a Secondary Issue but I wish that you had een serious and deone the study on this issue because you are wrong. Setting aside is generally accepted as being equal with the Law of God being nailed on that Cross so that we can now ignore it and that is not true. Iǘe swaid until I know you shouod be tired of hearing it but you can not and will not ever understand any verse or passage of Scripture without the light of all scripture shinning on it.

So it is that I continue to return to the words Jesus spoke in Mzatt. 5:18 and I continue to point out that the Earth has not been destroyed by fire yes and we still require the oxygen of the first heaven for beath. The Law of God has never been set aside and God doesw not expect us to be bound, unto death by it, just as the Old Testament Saints were not bound by death to it. But we are to seek, daily, to become more like God and the Ten Commandments are the portrait model we are to seek to emulate, just as the Jewish Believer was to seek after!

[th1bill]

As I read through this thread, all that I can think of is this ...

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Me too! I've been thinking about this all morning and kept coming back to these verses.

If the Lord had done away with the 'old' law, He wouldn't have said that the law was hanging on loving others as yourself. The law wouldn't be hanging on anything!

Remember, the law was still in effect when he said that.

The law wasn't set aside (Heb 7:18) until his death, when it was all accomplished.

How do you read this verse?

Matthew 5:18

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

All of that is thoroughly addressed here. You will find Mt 5:17-18 near the bottom, after the last bullet.

I don't agree that all is fulfilled, otherwise, the New Heaven and the New Earth would be here, the Great White Throne Judgment would of happened, Satan would of been thrown into the lake of fire, the 1000 years would of already been over with and His return and the rapture would of happened. There is a lot left to do, so it is not all fulfilled.

Jesus fulfilled the OT.

Not true! Daniel, chapters 10 through 12.