The 10 Terrible Provisions of Obamacare You May Not Have Heard Of

[Cajunluvie]

Ah, I see 250,000 issue stated again on this board. *shakes head*

[winsomebulldog]

Because I found it amusing that the article was getting indignant about the fact that people on a high income were being asked to pay a little more tax. It's not th best way to start a campaign to garner people's sympathy.

What you find amusing, those of us who actually live here find offensive. It isn't about people on a "high income" being asked to pay "a little more tax." It's about the middle class being taxed to death with none of the loopholes, shelters, or breaks afforded to the super rich and low income, and with no consideration given to rates of inflation or any other issues that impact the disposable income of tax payers.

The point in question is about additional charges on family incomes above $250,000 and individual incomes above $200,000! Those are not average American middleclass salaries.

The reality is that no one has the first clue what "middle class" even means. From the government to insurers to consumers to tax payers, everyone has a different definition. I found an article written in 2003 (Here if you want to read it) about how the middle class - then "broadly defined" as those earning $25,000 to $99,999 - was barely managing to stay afloat. That's an upper limit of $100,000 ten years ago. Now, regardless of how you personally feel about the $250,000 "limit," the reality is that as others have pointed out, that number isn't as simple as "disposable income of a married couple." That number takes nothing else into account. It doesn't care if the majority of that income came from your home business or if it is tied up in that business. It just says, you made "X" amount of money so we want half. And believe me, that isn't an exaggeration. Even more disturbing is the fact that our government doesn't care if you're in desperate financial straits. They just want their money. If, as happened to us, you have an emergency that puts you into a position where your income triples simply because you're trying to pay off all your debts so you won't lose your home to foreclosure, they don't care. Not only do they take half that "income," they also force you to pay taxes the following year equal to what you paid the year before! They don't care if you're making a quarter or less of what you made in previous years. They expect and demand that you pay in those taxes each fiscal quarter. At the end of the year, if your income doesn't reach the same level as the previous year, they'll give you most of those taxes back. But that doesn't do anything to help you during that full year that you're having to pay them in.

See, it isn't about the progressive tax rates nearly as much as it is about the bureaucracy, red tape, and blatant abuse that exists within our system. You can target our supposed "greed" all you like, it won't change the fact that you can have no real understanding of our situation here if you aren't living here. Just like I don't pretend to understand your system in England or Fez and Candice's system down in Australia.

I won't even pretend to speak for others on this board. Frankly, I've read things posted in this thread in response to you and others who share your views that I don't fully agree with. Personally, I simply want to see the abuses that are a day to day part of our government "business" put to a stop. Obamacare is one of those abuses. It isn't about my personal views on socialism or government run healthcare. Those are actually different discussions altogether. I am merely fed up with a system that rewards those who abuse it and punishes those who do not. I am tired of watching career politicians stand up and flat out tell me that they think I'm too stupid to make my own decisions so they're going to do what they think is best whether I like it or not. (Obamacare in a nut shell.)

[winsomebulldog]

Moving past the diversion, how about the rest of the points?

2.It adds a new tax to investment income.

3.It puts new limitations on those with HSAs and FSAs.

4.It adds a new tax on those who purchase medical devices.

5.It penalizes marriage.

6.It violates religious liberty.

7.It puts Medicare decisions in the hands of an unelected board.

8.It puts a premium tax on health insurers.

9.It creates a new unsustainable entitlement program.

10.It puts over half of all Americans on a government program.

Honestly, I don't know how to pick any one of these things that bothers me more than the others. They all carry their own problems and issues. Mostly, aside from the fact that I hate the idea of having this thing rammed down my throat regardless of the fact that it has never been a secret that the majority of Americans did not want it passed, I am convinced that like every other government run program it will be a hot mess and never function with anything remotely approaching efficiency. I don't know how long socialized healthcare has been in place in other countries. Nor do I have the first notion of how their tax or fiscal systems work. I live here and our system is hard enough to manage. I just know that the mess we've got in place now gets more out of whack every year. No one has the guts to do anything to actually try to fix it. They just keep slapping more band aids on the hemorrhaging and burying their heads in the sand, hoping it'll all work itself out. Or maybe just hoping that it'll hold together long enough for them to get out of office.

I know that we cannot continue to create more and more social crutches, tax the "higher incomes" to death to pay for them, and enact virtually no laws or system to ensure that those services aren't abused. I absolutely don't think that every person who seeks aid from welfare or any other social program is lazy or a mooch. But I know for a fact that these systems are broken and that our government can't police itself, much less the countless programs it continues to enact. So I see Obamacare as just one more colossal failure just waiting to happen. If Washington does get anything they have control over to work, maybe I wouldn't be so cynical of Obamacare.

[jasoncran]

@winsome. amen. i work partime as paper carrier and pay taxes out the but.my wife and i have owed and she is disabled. so the more i make the more we pay. thats fine but my medical bills for her havent dropped. when she last worked for herself and made a measly 13 grand, she owed the irs for that year 3 grand! go figure they feds dont care about you,they want their money.

[AnotherSinner]

Sorely disappointed with the look of things in the medical industry within the u.s. Michelle Obama holds or held a rather high position within hospital administration....seems to me that the bread crumbs leave a trail that lead right back to the presidential chair. Regardless of who is taxed and how high, seems really wrong to force any one thing on anyone. Medical insurance is not something everyone can afford, the idea of the possibility of penalizing someone who cannot afford the insurance as is, is basically like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. Hard to get something out of something that is simply not there...

My apologies for any offense caused. None was intended.

Just Another Sinner Without A Clue

Dani

[coheir]

((((((((families earning more than $250,000))))))))

"Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed"

~Jesus

So those blessed with higher incomes shouldn't begrudge paying tax on a larger proportion of there income as tax than those on lower incomes. Progressive taxarion is fairer than flat rate taxation.

It should be 10% of each persons gross income.

[JTC]

Unfortunately, I don't understand this stuff and I never did. But I'll say what I think based on what I have known in my many years here. In America the very rich are not going to allow themselves to be taxed beyond what the middle class or the poor are. I believe it's the very rich who should have to pay more because they can afford it. But they won't allow it. So if we elect Obama again, and he keeps trying to get more money from the very rich, it will just make things worse for the middle and lower classes. I think the number of $250,000 is too low. It should be raised to $500,000 or $750,000. That would be fair. But I don't think the rich people will pay the taxes, they always have a way out of it.

So what I am saying is we are probably better off with a republican president and a republican senate. They won't try to help the poor very much, but they will keep the country as a status quo, which has worked for most of our history.