Floatingaxe Posted April 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Can some help me understand the Trinity? My minister and fellow church members have tried and they don't seem to have a problem with it. But I do. Most often quoted to me is John 10:30 " I and my father are one." But in other scriptures (I can't find right now) Jesus talks to the disciples and he says I am in you and you in me. All through the scriptures, Jesus refers to God as his Father. I really don't see it, so I have decided it doesn't really matter. I love Jesus and God and I am so glad I have the Holy Spirit. I know Christ died and rose and he is preparing a place for me in heaven. I will live my life according to that knowledge. One day as I see jesus... I will know the truth. There are aspects to God that most people cannot fathom, and the trinity is one of them. I don't believe God expects us to be able to grasp Him as three Persons in One, but He does expect us to accept it by faith. That is not difficult. So, live out your faith and grow in God, accepting the triune nature of God and in time it will cease to be an issue. I don't have a problem thinking of God, who is Spirit, presenting Himself to the world as a man, the Lamb, the Redeemer, and as Holy Spirit, His great power who ministers to and through Creation. One of God's names spoken in Genesis means Redeemer, which is proof that the Son was right there with Him and the plan of redemption was already in the works. What a comfort to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandma dolittle Posted April 19, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/01/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1946 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 Can some help me understand the Trinity? My minister and fellow church members have tried and they don't seem to have a problem with it. But I do. Most often quoted to me is John 10:30 " I and my father are one." But in other scriptures (I can't find right now) Jesus talks to the disciples and he says I am in you and you in me. All through the scriptures, Jesus refers to God as his Father. I really don't see it, so I have decided it doesn't really matter. I love Jesus and God and I am so glad I have the Holy Spirit. I know Christ died and rose and he is preparing a place for me in heaven. I will live my life according to that knowledge. One day as I see jesus... I will know the truth. There are aspects to God that most people cannot fathom, and the trinity is one of them. I don't believe God expects us to be able to grasp Him as three Persons in One, but He does expect us to accept it by faith. That is not difficult. So, live out your faith and grow in God, accepting the triune nature of God and in time it will cease to be an issue. I don't have a problem thinking of God, who is Spirit, presenting Himself to the world as a man, the Lamb, the Redeemer, and as Holy Spirit, His great power who ministers to and through Creation. One of God's names spoken in Genesis means Redeemer, which is proof that the Son was right there with Him and the plan of redemption was already in the works. What a comfort to know! I am reminded of the scripture that says who can know the thoughts and ways of God, he is so far above us. You are right and I do accept everything else on faith. I guess the trinity will have to be on faith also. Just as I have faith that God made this wonderful world I live in, I will have to accept the trinity too. This is something for much prayer and time to think about this. At least it keeps me focused on God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandma dolittle Posted April 19, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/01/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1946 Author Share Posted April 19, 2012 www.bible.ca/trinity The triune understanding is the biblical, historical, orthodox view attacked by Arians (JWs) and Oneness (modalists; Jesus Only). God is compound unity, not solitary. Within the one eternal, uncreated spirit nature/substance/essence/being of God are 3 personal distinctions/conscious centers. They are co-equal, co-eternal, co-essential, not 3 gods (tritheism/Mormonism/polytheism). The first step is to understand the Deity of Christ...Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh. The Holy Spirit is personal, not impersonal. The trinity follows. Godrules, I am so sorry about being so selfish. i just read where your wife has MS. I will pray for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted April 19, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Can some help me understand the Trinity? My minister and fellow church members have tried and they don't seem to have a problem with it. But I do. Most often quoted to me is John 10:30 " I and my father are one." But in other scriptures (I can't find right now) Jesus talks to the disciples and he says I am in you and you in me. All through the scriptures, Jesus refers to God as his Father. I really don't see it, so I have decided it doesn't really matter. I love Jesus and God and I am so glad I have the Holy Spirit. I know Christ died and rose and he is preparing a place for me in heaven. I will live my life according to that knowledge. One day as I see jesus... I will know the truth. There are aspects to God that most people cannot fathom, and the trinity is one of them. I don't believe God expects us to be able to grasp Him as three Persons in One, but He does expect us to accept it by faith. That is not difficult. So, live out your faith and grow in God, accepting the triune nature of God and in time it will cease to be an issue. I don't have a problem thinking of God, who is Spirit, presenting Himself to the world as a man, the Lamb, the Redeemer, and as Holy Spirit, His great power who ministers to and through Creation. One of God's names spoken in Genesis means Redeemer, which is proof that the Son was right there with Him and the plan of redemption was already in the works. What a comfort to know! I am reminded of the scripture that says who can know the thoughts and ways of God, he is so far above us. You are right and I do accept everything else on faith. I guess the trinity will have to be on faith also. Just as I have faith that God made this wonderful world I live in, I will have to accept the trinity too. This is something for much prayer and time to think about this. At least it keeps me focused on God. This is the attitude that God requires from all of us, Grandma. Your willingness to humble yourself, and trust in God's word is a great example for all of us. Many people who do not understand the nature of God as revealed in scripture simply reject it, because of their lack of understanding. This really gives me joy to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 19, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,254 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,984 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2012 Grandma, this isn't something that everyone will agree with, but after years of pondering this is my personal beliefs on the trinity: I don't know if it will help, but it has put my mind to rest on the subject. Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink. KJV John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed. Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him. So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament. Looking further: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. KJV John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning. It seems to me that the people of the Old Testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he existed in before he became flesh. Further: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the Old Testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth. Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body. `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. KJV John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` 1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him........ The Father. I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it to the Father. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ But to us, there is but one God, The Father of whom all things came from...... And one Lord, Jesus whom we call the Christ, through which all things came including us. And we have the Holy Spirit which was sent to us from the Father at the request of Jesus. Interestingly, all three are one in thought, one in purpose, and one in action. We can't interface with the Father without being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and we can't have the Holy Spirit without the sacrifice and request of Jesus, and we couldn't have had Jesus without the Father asking Him to do what he has done for us. You have to have all three or none. And thus they are one And the thre as one are our God...... Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOVE SONGS Posted April 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 131 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,188 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 8 Joined: 04/10/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 19, 2012 Trinity means the set of...3 The Trinity of God is .... God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit They are 3 persons in ...ONE GOD... entwined. They are, oneness in each other, entwined ... They are oneness inside of you ...(His temple) Inside of you he entwines His Spirit and your spirit ...to be together with Them. Or, in Them. When you become born again from above ( a spiritual birth).... God says " I will put My Spirit into your heart." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandma dolittle Posted April 20, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/01/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1946 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Other One, Part of my confusion is things like that prayer. I see that as a Son praying to his Father in heaven. I know Jesus was the Son of God and therefore Holy. If he was part of God, why did he have to pray? I know I am not making sense to you, I don't even make sense to me! I will say this, the part of that prayer that thrills me is where Jesus prayed for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandma dolittle Posted April 20, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 78 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/01/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1946 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Trinity means the set of...3 The Trinity of God is .... God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit They are 3 persons in ...ONE GOD... entwined. They are, oneness in each other, entwined ... They are oneness inside of you ...(His temple) Inside of you he entwines His Spirit and your spirit ...to be together with Them. Or, in Them. When you become born again from above ( a spiritual birth).... God says " I will put My Spirit into your heart." Wow! I have never thought of being in God like that! I know his spirit is in me. Lord, help me to understand and embrace the Trinity. I know you will give me the knowledge when you want me to have it. I thank you for prayers you have answered and the wisdom you have given me and I thank you for answering this prayer also. In Jesus sweet name, amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted April 20, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,254 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,984 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted April 20, 2012 Other One, Part of my confusion is things like that prayer. I see that as a Son praying to his Father in heaven. I know Jesus was the Son of God and therefore Holy. If he was part of God, why did he have to pray? I know I am not making sense to you, I don't even make sense to me! I will say this, the part of that prayer that thrills me is where Jesus prayed for me! I would agree with the excitement. Keep in mind that after his resurection, he tells us that he had been given all power and authority...... which would mean that before the resurection he did not have all authority and power. he also told us that he was not doing anything of himself...... so in that light, he must pray to the Father for direction. His open prayers i personally believe was on our bahalf as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted April 20, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Grandma, it is no different for Jesus to pray to the father than for you to talk to yourself just as Jesus spoke of the Pharisee who prayed to himself. Jesus is the Word of God so naturally if God were talking to himself it must be his word talking to him. PRAY, v.i. [L. precor; proco; this word belongs to the same family as preach and reproach; Heb. to bless, to reproach; rendered in Job 2.9, to curse; properly, to reproach, to rail at or upbraid. In Latin the word precor signifies to supplicate good or evil, and precis signifies a prayer and a curse. See Imprecate.] 1. To ask with earnestness or zeal, as for a favor, or for something desirable; to entreat; to supplicate. Pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you. Matt.5.2. To petition; to ask, as for a favor; as in application to a legislative body.3. In worship, to address the Supreme Being with solemnity and reverence, with adoration, confession of sins, supplication for mercy, and thanksgiving for blessings received. When thou prayest, enter into thy closet,and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly. Matt.6.4. I pray, that is, I pray you tell me, or let me know, is a common mode of introducing a question. Jesus' high priestly prayer to the Father for us could be the equivalent of you talking to yourself and asking yourself to have mercy on your grandchild who just *insert poor behavior here*. We just were privileged to hear the conversation they had. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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