The way to deal with differences within the church!

[carlos123]

Sorry I have not posted more on this thread you all but I've stopped coming to this forum as I could not figure out how to get notice of replies. I tried everything and nothing worked.

Too much bother to be coming around having to load threads to figure out which one's have had responses.

If you want to get a hold of me just email me through my profile here (at least I think that is still available).

Take care and God's best to you all!

Carlos

[OneLight]

Sorry I have not posted more on this thread you all but I've stopped coming to this forum as I could not figure out how to get notice of replies. I tried everything and nothing worked.

Too much bother to be coming around having to load threads to figure out which one's have had responses.

If you want to get a hold of me just email me through my profile here (at least I think that is still available).

Take care and God's best to you all!

Carlos

I have enabled your notifications. You can easily modify what I have done in your profile under "Edit My Profile" and then choose "Notification Options" .

God Bless,

Alan

[carlos123]

Just weird. I got notice of your post this time Alan.

Thanks for doing whatever you did. I tried checking all those boxes and otherwise a few weeks ago and eventually gave up as nothing I did worked and no one could help me figure out how to get notifications. Oh well. I guess I will stick around. Thanks very much!

Carlos

[OneLight]

I am not sure what happened with your attempt. I do know that others forgot to save their profile before closing it. That will disregard and changes made. Glad you got the email!

You may soon wish you never wanted to be notified. I sometimes open my mailbox and have 10 to 30 emails from worthy.

[carlos123]

Thanks for your encouragement FollowerOfChrist. Much appreciated.

You know it never ceases to amaze me or more correctly perplex me how it is that the Christians don't get the most fundamental things about how we ought to be as a church, what it means to be a Christian, what the Word says about this or that, or any number of other such things.

I mean I do not have corner on truth but goodness gracious! It's all there in black and white in the Word!

Just a few days ago a Christian invited me to church yet once more. I felt like unloading on him big time!

What about ME?! What about me the rest of the week? Am I just a brownie point to complement some church building program where if I can be brought to some service on Sunday the church wins or something?

Don't the Christians have any clue as to what LOVE means?

I go through trials, joys, pains, am perplexed about this or that, need this or that, feel this, feel that, experience that or this, and do this or that and all the Christians can think about is to invite me to some building on Sunday's to hear someone explain to me what the Word says about this or that????

Makes me want to scream!

I was praying about this last night letting out my gripes of such in the presence of the Lord and it's like He seemed to lay on my heart that there is a need for me (and others) to teach the Christians on how to be Christians all over again.

How about taking me out for a cup of coffee and getting to know what I have been going through this week?? How about bothering to ask me if there is anything I can be helped with? How about offering to give me a ride somewhere? Even inviting me out to dinner at a restaurant or taking me to a movie and hanging out with me?

That's LOVE!

Reaching out and involving oneself in the life of another because you care!

Inviting me to some church service does not express loving care for me as a person at all! Rather it makes me feel used!

Why don't the Christians get it?!

Jesus reached out and left the comforts of heaven to come to Earth. He got His hands dirty reaching out to love us and was ultimately crucified for it. What are the Christians willing to do today? Invite me to church!

Utterly ridiculous if you ask me.

In line with what the Lord laid on my heart I spoke to this Christian about how I was not at all interested in going to Sunday church. That I was rather interested in getting to know him and him me if that is something he was interested in doing. This dear brother meant well but one thing about him is that he is very teachable and open to the Lord (as far as I can tell) and he very quickly surmised where I was coming from and we are getting together over a cup of coffee later this week.

I guess all I can do is deal with one Christian at a time. Trying to get them to come out of their comfort zones. Challenging them both by my life and by what I say.

I mean I don't know what else to do. The Church is such an incredible mess.

More in my next post.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Okay...getting back on track with the subject of this thread.

I previously (and very briefly) touched on how the ONE man rule of churches is not God's way for the church and how such rule is dangerous for the church with respect to putting too much power into the hands of ONE man who becomes the gatekeeper for what he believes to be true (without real accountability to anyone for truth).

I'd like to expand on that a bit on this post.

Let me point out something that may not be entirely obvious to some...churches in the New Testament were led by multiple leaders having co-equal authority (though not necessarily co-equal influence).

This is a very important difference between the modern church (with ONE man acting as the gatekeeper of truth) and the New Testament church.

And one which has profound implications for how differences in the church are dealt with.

If anyone has a contention with what I said I will be happy to provide verses but for now let's assume that I am correct in saying that New Testament churches had multiple leaders.

Having multiple, co-equal leaders, was not a requirement or command per se but rather a natural consequence of what church leaders were all about.

New Testament church leaders were called elders. Why? Because they were simply Christian men who had reached a certain level of maturity in their lives to be considered older and more mature and who also had a desire to shepherd the flock.

Character and desire where the two main qualifications for church leadership (see 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1).

Not divinity degrees from a bible school, ability to preach well, a nice churchy resume, or any of the other reasons that church leaders today are appointed to be leaders.

If you think about what being an older brother is, there would have been multiple men in any given church at any point in time who may have arrived at the character of an elder or be close to that. As such there was no ONE man who would have qualified exclusively as a church leader (today's Head Pastor). There would likely have been several.

The multiplicity of leadership in New Testament churches was a result of church leadership not being the sole domain of a professional class of leader but rather as being something that was open to any man who was considered mature in character (i.e. older as in an elder) and who had a desire.

The benefit to a local church of such with respect to helping truth prevail without the opinions of any ONE leader having an undue sway over a flock should be obvious.

Multiple leaders would have had multiple ideas on what was true. They would have had to learn to work out such differences in love without exercising lordship over others to promote their own idea of what truth was.

Real truth would have been better served by such multiplicity.

And the modeling of being able to fellowship with others through leadership that remained together despite differences would have served as an example to the flock of how to work out differences.

I am not saying that this was a foolproof means of working out differences or even at holding on to truth but a definite improvement over how things are today.

More later...depending on whether or not there is continuing interest in this topic.

Carlos

[JohnD]

Revelation 1:5-6 (KJV)

5 ...Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:9-10 (KJV)

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3-11 (KJV)

3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

When we accept the spiritual governance of man under a Christian banner (introduced by Emperor Constantine, elaborated on by his offspring the Roman Catholic Church, regurgitated by the Protestant movement) where there is at least the distinguishing factor of clergy and laity... then we open the door for all kinds of diverse versions and views and opinions as to what the Church is and how it is to be run and the color of the padding on the pews and on and on... reinventing the wheel over and over and over again...

Jesus is our high priest our direct Superior. All else is simply in the way. Spoon feeding what they want you to hear and to believe and to think.

Why would there be any unity?

Divide and conquer is the devil's oldest tactic.

[Miss Agapelove]

Sorry I have not posted more on this thread you all but I've stopped coming to this forum as I could not figure out how to get notice of replies. I tried everything and nothing worked.

Too much bother to be coming around having to load threads to figure out which one's have had responses.

If you want to get a hold of me just email me through my profile here (at least I think that is still available).

Take care and God's best to you all!

Carlos

I read your post and I love how He is leading you. We all have our own path He leads us down. Together we make the Body of Christ. We have different skills and many functions, but we are of one body. He has led me down a path where I have left the churches of man made doctrines, people have called me a false teacher for what has been revealed to me. I glorify Him because I know I am doing His will and it is in righteousness. The response I get from people shows me I am on the right path. Every word the Lord taught wasn't easy to swallow. Stay grounded, listen and pray. He won't led you astray. I have left the church for similar reasons you stated. If one questions, whether in love, if it goes against the doctrines being taught you will be a outcast.

I got discouraged and back slid because I felt I was ignorant and not mature enough to keep on doing it, I stopped for many other reasons, but feeling like you belong is of the flesh in my eyes and that is why I turned my back and went back to my old ways. It wasn't until January 2012 I repented, because I felt a heaviness on me to come back to Him. I feel something is about to start, the world is already feeling the birth pangs. We won't know the day or hour, but we see the signs... Brother in Christ be strong and listen to the Spirit that guides you.

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age

³Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

⁴And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. ⁵For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. ⁶And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all^b and earthquakes in various places. ⁸All these are the beginning of sorrows.

⁹“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. ¹⁰And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. ¹¹Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. ¹²And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. ¹³But he who endures to the end shall be saved. ¹⁴And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Amen

Amen

Amen.....love & Blessings brother...

[Miss Agapelove]

Thanks for your encouragement FollowerOfChrist. Much appreciated.

You know it never ceases to amaze me or more correctly perplex me how it is that the Christians don't get the most fundamental things about how we ought to be as a church, what it means to be a Christian, what the Word says about this or that, or any number of other such things.

I mean I do not have corner on truth but goodness gracious! It's all there in black and white in the Word!

Just a few days ago a Christian invited me to church yet once more. I felt like unloading on him big time!

What about ME?! What about me the rest of the week? Am I just a brownie point to complement some church building program where if I can be brought to some service on Sunday the church wins or something?

Don't the Christians have any clue as to what LOVE means?

I go through trials, joys, pains, am perplexed about this or that, need this or that, feel this, feel that, experience that or this, and do this or that and all the Christians can think about is to invite me to some building on Sunday's to hear someone explain to me what the Word says about this or that????

Makes me want to scream!

I was praying about this last night letting out my gripes of such in the presence of the Lord and it's like He seemed to lay on my heart that there is a need for me (and others) to teach the Christians on how to be Christians all over again.

How about taking me out for a cup of coffee and getting to know what I have been going through this week?? How about bothering to ask me if there is anything I can be helped with? How about offering to give me a ride somewhere? Even inviting me out to dinner at a restaurant or taking me to a movie and hanging out with me?

That's LOVE!

Reaching out and involving oneself in the life of another because you care!

Inviting me to some church service does not express loving care for me as a person at all! Rather it makes me feel used!

Why don't the Christians get it?!

Jesus reached out and left the comforts of heaven to come to Earth. He got His hands dirty reaching out to love us and was ultimately crucified for it. What are the Christians willing to do today? Invite me to church!

Utterly ridiculous if you ask me.

In line with what the Lord laid on my heart I spoke to this Christian about how I was not at all interested in going to Sunday church. That I was rather interested in getting to know him and him me if that is something he was interested in doing. This dear brother meant well but one thing about him is that he is very teachable and open to the Lord (as far as I can tell) and he very quickly surmised where I was coming from and we are getting together over a cup of coffee later this week.

I guess all I can do is deal with one Christian at a time. Trying to get them to come out of their comfort zones. Challenging them both by my life and by what I say.

I mean I don't know what else to do. The Church is such an incredible mess.

More in my next post.

Carlos

Amen

Amen

Amen Love & Blessings Brother.....

[Bold Believer]

Come to a Quaker meeting we, at least in traditional meetings, have no hierachy of pastors. We come together as equals and all regardless of age or gender have to minister if they feel called to do so.

Plymouth Brethren has much the same format, if I recall. Not even sure if the PB still exists a denomination.