His_disciple3 Posted July 15, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 358 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2012 Job 1:1 1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. That's right. Job was mature in faith. and Him being upright meant that he was standing Up, yeah OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 15, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Job 1:1 1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. That's right. Job was mature in faith. A very interesting word there. The same word was used to describe Jacob in Genesis but translated 'plain' instead. Gen 25:27 And the boys grew : and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob [was] a plain8535 man, dwelling in tents. Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect8535 and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. I really don't know what to make of that. But also understand the word 'perfect' there '8535' is used to mean undefiled as well. Interesting stuff. Gary well I think it has already been establish and agreed upon that words can have different meaning. I would agree that words have a range of meaning but we must have a way of understanding when they should be translated which way. Gary and you know better than all the Bible scholars that worked of the translation back in the 1600's it seems that this has gone quite far from the topic. the point that was intended to be made was already made. the word means what it means. there are many applications to the word complete. take it for what you will, but here it is again. 5046. τελειος teleios tel’-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness: — kjv translated it as follows. of full age, man, perfect. I am without understanding why anyone feels it helps this thread to continue to post the definition of Teleios. teleios means complete or mature so King James translators, knew as well as anyone else that speaks English should know that complete means perfect or perfection, so there is no wonder, why they would choose perfect, in as the perfect one comes as to the complete one comes, be ye perfect as Your Father is perfect, as to be ye complete as your Father is complete! as anything else can be over abused, as well as trying to prove that a wrong word was used to attack the Holy Word of God in the Authorized English version of Holy Scriptures, has been over abused already in this thread. in those days everyone did what was right in their own eyes, So when the Word of God says to be ye perfect, we have to change the meaning and say well surely He didn't mean for us to be perfect, our Father who art in Heaven Thy WILL BE DONE IN EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN, but seeing we will be perfect in Heaven forget about us being perfect down here we will do it as we see fit down here, ok go ahead and have it your way folks who want to change to word of God, for those that want to lay claim they know more about the meanings of words than anyone else, have it your way! But as I preach in Churches this is not a Burger King religion, you can't serve God and have it your way. i guess the difference between definition and application escapes you. complete is the definition, perfect is a application of that concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 15, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 910 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,667 Content Per Day: 2.01 Reputation: 5,844 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2012 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. KJV This verse seems simple and obvious to me. He's only saying that when God's Kingdom has finally come, there will be no need for prophecies. We will be living in a new era (yom) and what we've known about this one, which is temporal and passing away, will be a distant memory. No need for knowledge of it. Though everything around us will cease to be at some time, God's love will be eternal for us and in us. "That which is perfect" speaks of the Kingdom Come. Right. And "knowledge" passing away is referring to prophets and prophecy as in "thus saith the Lord" when once the canon is established all we need do is look up what saith the Lord in the Bible. When will actual knowledge ever pass away? I mean, come on... dude ( HD3) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted July 15, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Job 1:1 1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. That's right. Job was mature in faith. A very interesting word there. The same word was used to describe Jacob in Genesis but translated 'plain' instead. Gen 25:27 And the boys grew : and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob [was] a plain8535 man, dwelling in tents. Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect8535 and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. I really don't know what to make of that. But also understand the word 'perfect' there '8535' is used to mean undefiled as well. Interesting stuff. Gary well I think it has already been establish and agreed upon that words can have different meaning. I would agree that words have a range of meaning but we must have a way of understanding when they should be translated which way. Gary and you know better than all the Bible scholars that worked of the translation back in the 1600's Why would this be your response to what I have written? My hope was that you might reply with something concerning how we might know these things and add to the discussion that which I might be missing. I often muse over why the translators of that day chose the words they did when they did. In many places it seems that there was no rhyme or reason to the selection. I personally believe that God had his hand closely upon the translation of the KJV just as he did the Septuagint. God has been known to hide things in his word from those he desires not to see them. He resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. My hope is always to move forward in discussions toward unity of faith but unfortunately in our day that is becoming increasingly hard because iniquity abounds and revelation is skewed at best. I find myself unable to address much outside of encouraging people toward obedience that God reveal unto them his truth. Usually just get smacked up side the head with brutish comments and accusations though. Do you have any understanding behind why these were chosen as they were though they be the same word? Gary I am not one to ask why this or what if that, especially when it comes to the Word of God. if we think "well this word would have fitted better or that one would had more more sense", we are playing with the Word of God, after all it is the inspired Word of God, He is right and if we disagree then we are wrong, it was once said "God said it in His Word And I believe and that makes it true" something that you would probably Amen to, but in reality, because God said it is what makes it true has nothing to do with if you believe it or not. we are not to reason why God said something if Abram had reasoned on why God said to leave all and follow me, we may have never met Abraham, if Saul had reasoned with why that light came out of the sky, we would have never met Paul. So your KJV only? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. KJV This verse seems simple and obvious to me. He's only saying that when God's Kingdom has finally come, there will be no need for prophecies. We will be living in a new era (yom) and what we've known about this one, which is temporal and passing away, will be a distant memory. No need for knowledge of it. Though everything around us will cease to be at some time, God's love will be eternal for us and in us. "That which is perfect" speaks of the Kingdom Come. Right. And "knowledge" passing away is referring to prophets and prophecy as in "thus saith the Lord" when once the canon is established all we need do is look up what saith the Lord in the Bible. When will actual knowledge ever pass away? I mean, come on... dude ( HD3) ! I must admit that it's funny how much you cling to your church doctrines when the truth is staring you in the face. If thinking you have already have ALL knowledge, or that you are PERFECT (without blemish or sin) helps you get through the day, then have at it. Seems really arrogant, but whatever bro.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His_disciple3 Posted July 16, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 358 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) the Bible says that we must not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD. so our understanding of 1Cor. 13:10 must line up with other scriptures. God said in the Old testament will I not tell abraham my friend what I am about to do? Jesus called the disciples His friend, and said I have told you all that was told me by My Father. however John wrote that not everything that was done by Jesus was recorded, for if it had been, the world could not contain the books thereof. prophecy of salvation has been completed with scriptures we don't another book adding to salvation, but prophecy pertaining to the curses or blessings that God is about to pour on someone has nothing to do with salvation, example a prophet told Paul that if he went to observe the passover that Paul would be bound and taken away. the prophet used Paul's own belt to show him what was about to happen, but this prophecy had nothing to do with Paul's salvation. so If God the Father told people prophecy and Jesus, God the Son told people prophecy, will not God the Holy Spirit tell people prophecy. Is Jesus (God) not the same as yesterday, as today and tomorrow? also most folks that preach/teach prophecy ended with the Holy Scriptures, also preach/teach that the Spiritual gifts were only for the Apostles and ended with the Apostles. so we have the 12 Apostles to the jewish nation and Paul the Apostle to the Gentile nation. so please do tell me, which four of these apostles that had the gift of prophecy were daughters ? Acts 21:9 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. KJV Joel 2:28 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: KJV Acts 2:17 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: KJV Edited July 16, 2012 by His_disciple3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 16, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 the Bible says that we must not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD. so our understanding of 1Cor. 13:10 must line up with other scriptures. God said in the Old testament will I not tell abraham my friend what I am about to do? Jesus called the disciples His friend, and said I have told you all that was told me by My Father. however John wrote that not everything that was done by Jesus was recorded, for if it had been, the world could not contain the books thereof. prophecy of salvation has been completed with scriptures we don't another book adding to salvation, but prophecy pertaining to the curses or blessings that God is about to pour on someone has nothing to do with salvation, example a prophet told Paul that if he went to observe the passover that Paul would be bound and taken away. the prophet used Paul's own belt to show him what was about to happen, but this prophecy had nothing to do with Paul's salvation. so If God the Father told people prophecy and Jesus, God the Son told people prophecy, will not God the Holy Spirit tell people prophecy. Is Jesus (God) not the same as yesterday, as today and tomorrow? also most folks that preach/teach prophecy ended with the Holy Scriptures, also preach/teach that the Spiritual gifts were only for the Apostles and ended with the Apostles. so we have the 12 Apostles to the jewish nation and Paul the Apostle to the Gentile nation. so please do tell me, which two or more of these apostles that had the gift of prophecy were daughters ? Joel 2:28 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: KJV Acts 2:17 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: KJV Acts 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His_disciple3 Posted July 16, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 358 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2012 the Bible says that we must not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD. so our understanding of 1Cor. 13:10 must line up with other scriptures. God said in the Old testament will I not tell abraham my friend what I am about to do? Jesus called the disciples His friend, and said I have told you all that was told me by My Father. however John wrote that not everything that was done by Jesus was recorded, for if it had been, the world could not contain the books thereof. prophecy of salvation has been completed with scriptures we don't another book adding to salvation, but prophecy pertaining to the curses or blessings that God is about to pour on someone has nothing to do with salvation, example a prophet told Paul that if he went to observe the passover that Paul would be bound and taken away. the prophet used Paul's own belt to show him what was about to happen, but this prophecy had nothing to do with Paul's salvation. so If God the Father told people prophecy and Jesus, God the Son told people prophecy, will not God the Holy Spirit tell people prophecy. Is Jesus (God) not the same as yesterday, as today and tomorrow? also most folks that preach/teach prophecy ended with the Holy Scriptures, also preach/teach that the Spiritual gifts were only for the Apostles and ended with the Apostles. so we have the 12 Apostles to the jewish nation and Paul the Apostle to the Gentile nation. so please do tell me, which two or more of these apostles that had the gift of prophecy were daughters ? Joel 2:28 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: KJV Acts 2:17 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: KJV Acts 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. yes I tried to correct my post, it had to be at least 4 of them that were daughters, according to this verse. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 16, 2012 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 the Bible says that we must not live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD. so our understanding of 1Cor. 13:10 must line up with other scriptures. God said in the Old testament will I not tell abraham my friend what I am about to do? Jesus called the disciples His friend, and said I have told you all that was told me by My Father. however John wrote that not everything that was done by Jesus was recorded, for if it had been, the world could not contain the books thereof. prophecy of salvation has been completed with scriptures we don't another book adding to salvation, but prophecy pertaining to the curses or blessings that God is about to pour on someone has nothing to do with salvation, example a prophet told Paul that if he went to observe the passover that Paul would be bound and taken away. the prophet used Paul's own belt to show him what was about to happen, but this prophecy had nothing to do with Paul's salvation. so If God the Father told people prophecy and Jesus, God the Son told people prophecy, will not God the Holy Spirit tell people prophecy. Is Jesus (God) not the same as yesterday, as today and tomorrow? also most folks that preach/teach prophecy ended with the Holy Scriptures, also preach/teach that the Spiritual gifts were only for the Apostles and ended with the Apostles. so we have the 12 Apostles to the jewish nation and Paul the Apostle to the Gentile nation. so please do tell me, which two or more of these apostles that had the gift of prophecy were daughters ? Joel 2:28 28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: KJV Acts 2:17 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: KJV Acts 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. yes I tried to correct my post, it had to be at least 4 of them that were daughters, according to this verse. thank you no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coheir Posted July 19, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,458 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 729 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1950 Share Posted July 19, 2012 hi one light, do you have any instances where Jesus is referenced in the neutar when in His unearthly form (following the normal greek grammer rules of course) 1st cor 15: 51,2,3 when we are changed into same body as Christ. also flesh ans blood cannot inherit heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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