How can I trust God to bring physical healing to others?

[Sevenseas]

Have you ever stopped to consider the FACT that for Jesus and for that matter for the New Testament apostles...it didn't matter one iota whether the ailment someone had was their fault or not?

OK, Carlos...seriously? You don't know that Paul, the greatest Apostle according to some, had a demonic influence in his life that

God WOULD NOT REMOVE even though Paul pleaded with God 3'x to remove it?

You don't know that Stephen was stoned?

You don't know that everyone in the Bible is dead and had to die of something and God did not keep them alive?

Think a little bit here..............

[Sevenseas]

Deleted

[Sevenseas]

I say that fascitiously but most Christian prayers are not much different than that if you ask me. By our actions and the results of our prayers it is evident that we don't really trust God for much at all. We trust our bank accounts, and doctors, and man and leave the LIVING GOD on the backburner in really trusting Him to BE the LIVING GOD in our midst.

Speak for yourself. I think it is YOURSELF you are disenchanted with.

[carlos123]

Listen, yr argument is just a little silly if I may say so. How bout some common sense? How about not blaming God for yr own failures?

Huh? What failure are you talking about? That I had a stomach ache?

That I can't seem to pray and ask God for a healing and get one?

Please do tell...I am all ears.

I want to learn. Maybe you have something there but I have little clue as to what that might be so that I can do better.

Have you thought that you may have an ulcer or nervous stomach? Have you seen a doctor?

Yes to all that. But I can tell you for sure it's not a nervous stomach. Possibly an ulcer but I doubt it. Doctors can't tell what it is.

The closest thing I can describe it as being is that burps get caught in my esophagal area and can't come out. Pressure builds up. My stomach starts blowing up like a balloon or at least it feels like it and eventually the burps start coming out and release...ahh...pain gone.

But besides that it really doesn't matter what it is!

Did any of that matter to Jesus when someone came for a healing? NOPE!

He didn't talk about people's failures or ask people if they had gone to see a doc. He just healed them!

Does God do everything for everyone...does He do the grocery shopping and go to work for you?

Huh?

Did I ever say that I was not willing to do something about my stomach ache? I don't understand your perspective at all.

Me thinks you assume too much.

When people came to Jesus for a healing He didn't care one iota about the kinds of questions you are asking me or what the answers might have been.

All He saw was that a person was sick and suffering and He healed them. End of story as far as that sickness was concerned.

It is we of North American, supposedly enlightened religious thinking that go around making a healing about more than that.

God does not do our thinking for us and He does not make our choices for us...

What in the world makes you think I ever said otherwise?

Thinking God should make a life just perfect completely forgets the fact that we are living in a downfallen world

Did I say anything about making things perfect? Good grief.

Rather than assuming and asking me what sure seem like irrelevant questions how about sharing with me how I might be able to trust God for a healing? For His glory and honor?

Put some pants on and go to the doctor...seriously

Assumption...again. You didn't even ask me if I had been to a doctor. I have. On a number of occasions. They have not so far been able to tell what it was.

Unless you think that doctors are perfect and know everything medically speaking.

Have you been listening to some faith healers/teachers and now you think you can command God and He will do your bidding?

You're starting to sound like Job's buddies. Who corrected him on all kinds of things that he was never at fault in.

The answer to the questions in the above sentence is no. No to listening to faith healers and potential quacks. No to thinking that I can command God around to do my personal bidding.

Did you miss the part about me reading some verses that have led me to think that I (and all of us for that matter) are missing some fundamental parts about what walking by faith in God to heal us is all about?

You do not have a proper understanding of faith as the scriptures teach it...

Maybe not. So explain it to me. Don't just accuse me of not have a proper understanding of faith and leave me hanging.

God does not act outside of His Word and He abides by what He has said He will abide by...

I'll say AMEN to that. Have you been able to realize the truths in real life of the verses I have quoted in this thread?

If so...would you care to help me understand how I might be able to imitate your example of great faith?

Carlos

[carlos123]

Have you ever stopped to consider the FACT that for Jesus and for that matter for the New Testament apostles...it didn't matter one iota whether the ailment someone had was their fault or not?

OK, Carlos...seriously? You don't know that Paul, the greatest Apostle according to some, had a demonic influence in his life that

God WOULD NOT REMOVE even though Paul pleaded with God 3'x to remove it?

You don't know that Stephen was stoned?

You don't know that everyone in the Bible is dead and had to die of something and God did not keep them alive?

Think a little bit here..............

Again you correct me without giving me anything concrete to help me walk in greater faith.

Let's say I am all washed up in everything I have said on this thread (it's possible I suppose).

But there is the matter of the verses I quoted. About how all things are possible to him who believes and so forth.

I would like to know, not your accusations and assumptions about me, but rather how you think I might be able to believe God to see those verses come to life in and through me or through all of us as Christians.

I am all ears. Give me concrete advice.

Carlos

[carlos123]

We are not God, yuh know?

Don't tell me that prayers for safe passage are useless...whine whine whine

Sorry if I offended you by what I said SevenSeas.

What I was talking about is the prayers of so many Christians that are more prayers of hope rather than of faith.

What I mean is that many Christians pray for things hoping that God will answer their prayers but having no real confidence based on the character or will of God that He will indeed answer their prayers.

Such prayers of hope are no different than what any other person praying to Buddha or Confucious, Chairman Mao, or a rock they have above their chimney might pray.

What sets the Christians apart? As a people that have the LIVING God in their midst.

It's not such prayers if you ask me.

You say I am whining and whining and whining.

Well...give me something to allow me to have faith of a kind that will result in Jesus being glorified through me and those in the Body around me!

Just as He was in the New Testament.

Give me something concrete. Concrete advice. So that I might stop what you call whining and get on with the business of healing the sick and otherwise attesting to the reality of the LIVING God among us to a world that is looking for more than just another religious philosophy.

Carlos

[carlos123]

I had something rather interesting happen to me last night in connection with the subject of this thread.

Later last night, after I wrote my last posts here, my stomach pain got worse. That usually happens before it gets better.

Anyway I took off my shirt and starting rubbing my belly from the sides to the front and rebuking the pain over and over again.

I started to feel a tad better but that was probably due to my rubbing my belly than my rebukes.

Anyway after a while, seeing that my prayers weren't doing much of anything at all, I gave up the belly rubbing.

But that's when I had an "ah ha!" moment before God.

As I asked the Lord about why I couldn't heal my pain and otherwise brought this up to Him it dawned on me...that...

There is NO SINGLE instance or example of ANYONE in the New Testament EVER rebuking their own pain. NOT ONE.

So many Christians, including me, have done that in the past but THERE ISN'T A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF ANYONE DOING THAT.

Which led me to wonder if such a thing is even something we ought to do at all!

As I pondered that it further dawned on me that instead of rebuking my pain any which way I could that it would be more in line with what I see in the Scriptures for me to come to Jesus with my pain and ask HIM to heal it.

So I stood there, with palms raised up and hands at my side (I believe Pentecostals call this the receiving "position"), head bowed and came before the Lord with my pain. Asking Him to make it go away.

And...would you know it? I felt all tingly with shivers going up and down my back at the thought of standing before the Lord and my pain went away!

That minute.

For the rest of the night...the pain would start to surface ever so slightly but whenever it did I would come before the Lord again.

And the pain stayed away! Such that I was able to go about my business the rest of the night without the interruption of pain!

I am not saying that I have discovered the secret to being healed but I think what the Lord led me to understanding about all my rebuking and attempts to heal myself in Jesus's name is instructive and worth pondering on the road to understanding how to do this.

Carlos

[gdemoss]

Carlos, the subject your breaching here now has great depth and weight to it. I love asking questions and having the spirit answer them for me so I don't look like such a fool by typing them out to you and having you laugh at me.

I consider your question, 'how can I have more faith?'. It is a question many Christians have.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The answer is by acting upon the faith God has already given you. You see the righteousness of God is revealed in those who walk by the faith he has given unto them. Most doctrine spoken of in the bible deals with behavior and moral judgment.

Lets consider Abraham, the father of our faith, whose faith we are suppose to be walking in according to Paul in Rom 4. It is revealed unto us how Abraham went from faith to faith in the offering up of Isaac. God had come to Abraham and promised him Isaac and promised him that all nations would be blessed through him. Abraham was an old man and his body basically dead when Sarah became pregnant with Isaac and the promise fulfilled. Then God tells Abraham to go offer Isaac as a burnt offering upon a mountain. The increase in faith needed to do such a thing was an insurmountable obstacle but Abraham prevailed by considering what God had already done for him. He had given him Isaac in a like manner when his body was basically dead and he surmised that God could raise Isaac from the dead and therefore took him to offer him up.

Our faith is increased through use as well as increased knowledge and understanding. When I began to walk with God 10 years ago, I had just enough faith based upon others witness that their was a God to look up and pray for help. God answered that prayer through sovereign means and my faith was increased. Today my faith is much greater than the day that I began but still lacks in comparison to some of the greater biblical faith I have seen displayed in men.

As per your previous post, I have done some similar things to have pain relieved. I have simply asked to be given relief and have received it. Last week I had a tooth ache and asked that I might have relief so that I could sleep. The spirit said to go get some warm water and add salt to it and rinse the area, so I did. I slept like a baby. Do I consider it a cure all for tooth aches? I don't know about that, I think of it more like dipping in the Jordan seven times.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[carlos123]

One other thing I would like to share.

We Christians seem rather fond of saying that God CAN heal us but as to whether He WILL heal us...we aren't sure depending on what His will may be.

That's the way I have usually thought about all this.

But I began to wonder if there isn't something wrong with that perspective too.

I mean look at it this way...

How many of the people that came to Jesus for healing did Jesus heal?

ALL!

That's right. ALL!

If Jesus, being God, was willing to heal ALL why in the world would He not be willing to heal all today?

Beats me.

I think I may need to rethink that oh so common thinking that says that God CAN heal but that He might not WILL to heal.

I mean such thinking does not line up with what I see in Jesus at all.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Our faith is increased through use as well as increased knowledge and understanding.

Well put Gary!

I especially like the part about increased knowledge and understanding.

What the Lord seemed to give me yesterday, not only through my experience of having the pain go away but also by my realizing that another Christian "belief" of God being ABLE but perhaps NOT WILLING may have to be set aside, is that my faith may be okay but that what I am having faith in God for may be all wrong.

In other words how can I possibly have faith in God to heal me IF at the same time that I believe He is ABLE, I am wondering if He WILL heal me?

I must have CONFIDENCE in God to act on my prayers in order for my prayers to be prayers of faith instead of just prayers where I am hoping that God is there and that He will act.

But that CONFIDENCE has to be based on truth.

If the truth that I am believing is twisted somehow, if it is faulty, as to His will or His character or anything else that touches upon the thing I am praying for...all the faith in the world may not get me the desired result.

What may have to happen is that the faultiness of my internal beliefs may first have to be corrected before I can trust God in truth for what He is both ABLE and WILLING to do.

Carlos