Gifts Of The Spirit: Question

[enoob57]

The reason I asked the question is I read a book by a pastor I admire (John MacArthur) who stated that certain gifts have ceased because we now have the complete word of God in the Bible and no longer need such confirmation of the faith through such miracles.

I also personally believe that such things as speaking in tongues were simply those that spoke miraculously in the languages of the hearers, not the "babbling" that is prominent in many Pentecostal denominations.

I also appreciate John MacArthur and His teaching points of view...

non-interpreted tongues have no place in group setting and what is done in the prayer closet is

strictly up to God and the Person. Love, Steven

[enoob57]

Brothers and Sisters, I'm seeking opinions on this subject. I'm curious as to whether you believe certain gifts of the spirit (speaking in another tongue, raising the dead, casting out demons, prophecy, healing, etc.) ended with the apostolic age, or they continue to this day.

There is no Scripture saying the gifts have ceased. There are, however, "anti-tongues speakers" who say that gift ended with the disciples. Today we hear of people being healed and raised from the dead in third world countries. I wonder if that is because there people accept God's Word without reservation as opposed to in the U.S. and other progressive nations we are "too sophisticated" to accept it.

How do you interpret this passage in view of the last of days we are in?

1 Co 13:8

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

NKJV Love, Steven

[GoldenEagle]

The reason I asked the question is I read a book by a pastor I admire (John MacArthur) who stated that certain gifts have ceased because we now have the complete word of God in the Bible and no longer need such confirmation of the faith through such miracles.

I also personally believe that such things as speaking in tongues were simply those that spoke miraculously in the languages of the hearers, not the "babbling" that is prominent in many Pentecostal denominations.

I don't care how educated he is John MacArthur is wrong. There are at least two types of "tongues". Those used for testifying in corporate worship and those that are a private prayer language. My wife was given the gift of a private prayer language. I have never heard her prayer language and have never been given the gift of either. But there is no Scripture to support Mr. MacArthur's position.

So perhaps this in bold isn't exactly helpful? Help me understand... One's education should have little or no bearing on the truth? We're all equal before God's eyes no?

No matter how educated one is if what he/she teaches is not supported by Scripture then they have no business teaching it. Humans have a tendency to believe the teachings of one with degrees after their name is more truthful that others God may use. Most of the disciples would have been disqualified with this reasoning.

I often think of all the highly educated Pharisees who put Jesus down because they claimed he had no education. There is no command or even a suggestion to build and establish bible colleges or seminaries. Wonder why that is? Seems to me that Jesus was concerned that there might not even be much faith on Earth when he returned...won't he be shocked to find all these fancy schools and churches with his name all over them?

Gary

I agree no matter one's education if there is extra-Biblical teaching not supported by Scripture then it shouldn't be taught. I'm not compeletly familiar with all of John MacArthur's teachings. But what I do know of him is that MacArthur would not come to a conclusion without Biblical backing. This would be logical no?

That was the point.

Education I agree Gary has nothing to do with anything. God's Holy Spirit is the One who guides us. I'm not saying MacArthur's right or wrong on his position on tongues. I believe as evidenced in the tongues forum that there are two perspectives. Yes, God has given tongues as a personal prayer language. No, God has not given tongues as a personal prayer language. We're (Christians) looking at the same thing in Scripture and coming to different conclusions. In Christ there is freedom. In Christ I know my brothers and sisters who speak in a personal prayer language have that freedom. In Christ I know my brothers and sisters who believe they shouldn't speak (even don't want to or think others shouldn't) in a personal prayer language have that freedom. The holy spirit lives in all of us as Believers. (1 Cor. 6:19-20) We are free to disagree in Christ. (Gal 5.1 and Rom. 8:2) Do you guys agree?

As to Christ being surprised... I don't think from a Biblical perspective Christ will be surprised about anything when he returns. Especially regarding those whom have chosen Him/been chosen by God. (Eph. 8:29) Of course not all who claim they're "Christians" are truly saved. (Matt. 21-23) Salvation is a free gift of God through grace alone (Eph. 2:8-9) and is a relationship with Christ to live life in God's abundant love (John 10:10) for the purpose of fellowship with God. (Rev. 3:2) What do you think?

[enoob57]

No matter how educated one is if what he/she teaches is not supported by Scripture then they have no business teaching it. Humans have a tendency to believe the teachings of one with degrees after their name is more truthful that others God may use. Most of the disciples would have been disqualified with this reasoning.

I agree as we are not to be men pleaser's-but- the necessity to obey His Word 2Tim 2:15 -Scriptures pictorial of truth to this regard:

We see Jesus at age twelve highly learned in the Scripture... we are to be followers of Christ... MacArthur does not have learning degrees

but a ministry that is clearly blessed by God and brings Biblical emphasis to the foundation of living. You do not have to listen to Him very

long to recognize a profuse regard for God's Word and gifted ability to speak out of that resource. The disciples spent 3 ¹/₂ years of learn/apply with

The Teacher... I think it would be silly to not give them the credit of learning from the greatest Teacher and Bible School known to man! Love, Steven

[Sevenseas]

I am so with you on this, LadyC. I long ago lost count of the times sincere folks told me I wasn't saved -- then some freaked out when I reminded them that its the Holy Spirit who decides who gets what gift. I've had to deal with that kind of bullying too.

This is the other side of the coin so to speak. There is no biblical precedent for telling someone they are not saved if they do

not speak in tongues.

We receive the Holy Spirit the moment we are truly saved. No denom should put such an emphasis on tongues...the emphasis should

be on God's word and seeking Him...things tend to fall into place after that...putting gifts first, results often in mayhem and false spirits

manifesting

And yes, God is the one who decides who gets what

[Sevenseas]

But what I do know of him is that MacArthur would not come to a conclusion without Biblical backing. This would be logical no?

I do not see the above as a fail safe. I could say the same thing about myself and so could many others.

In fact, anyone with a strong belief will tell you that.

Mr. MacArthur is wrong. I speak in tongues and I do not abuse the gift and I do not ever encourage anyone to put tongues

ahead of the Word or any other gift for that matter.

I could list example after example of when 'tongues' or praying in tongues was used of God or the Holy Spirit, to aid me in

some way or cause me to be aware in some way

I often pray in English by the Holy Spirit...that is prayers that I know do not originate from my own mind as they are of a

higher quality and give insight into things I am enquiring about...tongues is not some evil or weird thing at all. It is

actually very helpful when used as God intended and the Holy Spirit absolutely gives a new dimension to a person's

prayer life. I am not a thrill seeker...I am a truth seeker and I believe that is one reason God bestowed the ability

to pray and sing in tongues

I often will take my guitar and sing to the Lord and if in tongues, then I will sing in English and the words are always

giving glory to God and often scripture...all of this is biblical...the Holy Spirit will bring to our minds scripture and on

a few occasions, scripture that I did not know was in the Bible but when I looked it up, there it was!

In church, I will sing in English...not tongues....not everyone has the faith to speak in English rather than tongues first,

and I do not consider myself to be strong in faith...my strength is in God knowing my heart and my response to Him

is all this about. I don't talk about personal experience much on these boards because it starts to sound like

me me me and I don't want to give that impression...but let me tell you, the Holy Spirit has not changed from

the day of Pentecost and God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Many people who have experienced this can only say as did the disciples all those years ago...this I have seen

with my own eyes and I can testify that Jesus Christ is alive.

[OneLight]

I see the problem as taking someones word for it and not digging deep to see if it is the truth or not. I really like Charles Stanley, but like MacArthur, he also believes the some of the gifts are not operating today. Both have excellent life guiding teachings, but they are still just a human who are not perfect. No matter how much I like a teaching of someone, if it does not line up with scripture, I follow scripture first.

Look at the Bereans. The Apostles taught them, but they did not accept their teachings at face value. They took what they taught and placed it beside scripture to see if it was true or false. We should do the same. If we do not, then we fall into the trap of following the teachings of man and not those of God. Those who find themselves in such a trap are there because they were too lazy to ensure what they believe is true. There will be many false teachers in the last days and it is our responsibility to test their words against scripture.

[enoob57]

I see the problem as taking someones word for it and not digging deep to see if it is the truth or not. I really like Charles Stanley, but like MacArthur, he also believes the some of the gifts are not operating today. Both have excellent life guiding teachings, but they are still just a human who are not perfect. No matter how much I like a teaching of someone, if it does not line up with scripture, I follow scripture first.

Look at the Bereans. The Apostles taught them, but they did not accept their teachings at face value. They took what they taught and placed it beside scripture to see if it was true or false. We should do the same. If we do not, then we fall into the trap of following the teachings of man and not those of God. Those who find themselves in such a trap are there because they were too lazy to ensure what they believe is true. There will be many false teachers in the last days and it is our responsibility to test their words against scripture.

This is an excellent point to point! Driving us to the ultimate need of The Teacher within and Scripture to stand upon... Love, Steven

[2Joyful]

I truly believe that the Gifts of the Spirit is in operation today. The main reason they are not is because... a person or church doesn't believe. Many are willing to accept the gifts that make sense to them...such as Wisdom, Knowledge, Healing and Faith. Yet even to some Miracles and Prophecy are sometimes challenged. I believe Speaking and Interpreting of Tongues, are the two gifts people tend to cause themselves to back away from...because it's out of their comfort zone, not realizing to operate in these supernatural gifts, you must acknowledge and believe as you have done for the others.

The saddest of all is when people set their standards on who should or shouldn't have these gifts. By that I mean the way a person look, dress, speak, even education... and it should not be so..because the gifts are not given by man but by God Himself.

[His Ambassador]

Brothers and Sisters, I'm seeking opinions on this subject. I'm curious as to whether you believe certain gifts of the spirit (speaking in another tongue, raising the dead, casting out demons, prophecy, healing, etc.) ended with the apostolic age, or they continue to this day.

There is no Scripture saying the gifts have ceased. There are, however, "anti-tongues speakers" who say that gift ended with the disciples. Today we hear of people being healed and raised from the dead in third world countries. I wonder if that is because there people accept God's Word without reservation as opposed to in the U.S. and other progressive nations we are "too sophisticated" to accept it.

How do you interpret this passage in view of the last of days we are in?

1 Co 13:8

8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

NKJV Love, Steven

When Jesus returns those things will cease. In the meantime those gifts are available to Believers as God choses.