Do we really go to heaven just as soon as we die?

[bornagain2011]

For me I have Faith that once this body has passed, I will be with the Lord!.

I choose to believe the word of God found in the Bible.

The OP. is..from the book:

The Jerusalem Church: Learn Not the Way of the Heathen

By Robert Cook

And there is no reason to believe that when we die we won't be in the presents of the Lord. I am simply saying that we will not be going straight to heaven the moment we die but will go to heaven when Jesus come to raise us from the grave. Read the Parable of Lazorus and the rich man.

I don't think we will go to Heaven when Jesus raises us from the dead, we will be on earth for 1,000 years then New Jerusalem. We wont go to Heaven. Heaven comes down to eath.

Also, Jesus said His Father's house has many rooms, He has prepared a place for us, and if this wasn't true He wouldn't have said so.

Jesus also told the theif on the cross that today he would be with Him in paradise, which means Heaven.

When the last trumpet is sounded our dead bodies will be reunited with our Spirits which come down from Heaven. Lifeless bodies come up from ground....us (Spirits) come down from Heaven. So body + Spirit = resurrected bodies.

just my 2 cents...

But we will see.

[allofgrace]

Tim Hbr 9:11 NASB - But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;

Hbr 9:12 NASB - and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 9:19-25 - For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,

- saying, "THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD COMMANDED YOU."

- And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.

- And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

- Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

- For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

- nor was it that He would offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the holy place year by year with blood that is not his own.

Heb 9:23-25 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another— NKJ Thomas Nelson Publishing. V23 is telling us that Christ as our High Priest did not go into the holy of holies as the Levite high priest would do with a blood sacrifice once a year which was a copy on earth of the heavenly temple, but He went into heaven itself by His once for all sacrifice for sin which was Himself. He was not only the High Priest who offered the sacrifice but He was the sacrifice, the spotless Lamb of God who is now in heaven making intercession for the saints. There are those that do believe as you that He actually took His blood and offered it on the altar in heaven but there are many who do not believe that to be literal. But as Shiloh has said, heaven did not need a cleansing.

Edited December 4, 2012 by allofgrace

[Tim7]

Thank you for your thoughts! I appreciate you pointing this out to me, I will do further studying of the Word. Blessings Tim

[Massorite]

The reason the thief went to paradise is because Jesus hadnt yet ascended to heaven to cleanse heaven with his blood to make it clean again so people can enter in to heaven. When Jesus died He descended into paradise to preach to every soul that died but lived accordingly to the law to the best they knew how till Jesus could come and fulfill the law and die once for all mankind. Jesus led the people in paradise into heaven to fulfill the prophecy of how hell enlarged itself, Paradise is now hell a place of torment for those that reject the presence of God and the price Jesus paid for them on the cross. We as Christians enter into heaven because Jesus made the way, He is the door to heaven. I understand its hard to understand these things because they are only spiritually discerned, we cant figure them out in our mind it can only be explained by the Spirit and faith only!

Heaven which the adode of God would never need to be cleansed in any way. Being the place where God resides means that it is a Holy Place which in turn tells us that Heaven is and always was a sinless place with no corruption what so ever and no need to be cleansed. Otherwise God would be living in a corrupted place.

The fact that Jesus emptied out Paradise of all who had died is not written anywhere in scripture which makes that whole concept a false teaching and not even worthy of any consideration.

The fact of that matter is that Hell has now and always had three sections with three different name which mean three different things and Paradise has always been a seperate place from hell. The three names are Hades, Gaheena and Tartorus (Look it up if you don't believe me). Hades means "The place of departed Souls" Gaheena means "The place of Torment, and Tartorus (The word Tartorus is not written in the bible) is the Prison spoken of in the books of Peter where the Angels in chains are reserved until Judgment is made on them. IE The Great White Throne Judgement.

With all of that in mind let me ask you this. Since the thief went to Paradise with Jesus was he saved or unsaved? Were the Diciples Saved or Unsaved?

[Tim7]

Oh ok...thanks

[Massorite]

I think Stephen went to heaven and has a new body.

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

2Cor.5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

Show me some scripture that say "Steven went to heaven" We must remember that Jesus is our example and all that happened to him will happen to us which means that we will first decend into the lower reaches of the earth before we are raised from the grave. What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross? He said "this day you shall be with me in paradise" now we all know that Jesus first decended and since the thief went with Christ that very death which is the day of His death, the thief went with Christ into Paradise.

Desiring "to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: IS A LONG WAYS FROM BEING CLOTHED WITH OUR HEAVENLY CLOTHING.

Well read this again

What did Stephen see before being stoned ? - Jesus

Was this not Jesus coming for him ? - sure

Stephen was a educated man in the Gospel and asked Jesus to come and get him he knew his body was going to die.

So the flesh died and Stephen moved out a live spirit and went to heaven and not to be naked he got an heavenly body.

Why would you want to raise a dead body when you are already alive in heaven ?

God has to speak a body back into existence so that ____________________________ ? what purpose ?

If the body is going to be raised from the grave and then changed into a heavenly body anyway,

why come back down here and be dead again and be resurrected from out of the ground, just get it while you are already up there.

You said "Was this not Jesus coming for him ? - sure" and this statement is wrong. In the scriptures you are talking about Jesus isn't coming or going. The scripture says that Jesus "IS STANDING AT THE THRONE OF GOD". "Standing" is not a motion word.

Again you said "Stephen was a educated man in the Gospel and asked Jesus to come and get him he knew his body was going to die". Where in the bible does it say that Jesus was asking Jesus for anything?

Holy Moly if there is anybody who adds to what scripture really says it is you. Stephen never asks Jesus to come and get him at anytime. Nor does the bible ever say that Jesus came to get Stephen at any time. In fact nothing is spoken at all about where Stephen went after he died. Where are you getting this stuff?

You asked a great question which gives doubt to this going to heaven the moment we die "Why would you want to raise a dead body when you are already alive in heaven?"

No one including God would need to raise a dead body if that person was already living in heaven. But if one is still in the grave and not in heaven then God would need to speak that person out of the grave. Which God will do on the day of resurrection of the dead in Christ. Because no one is already in heaven. :clap:

[allofgrace]

]You asked a great question which gives doubt to this going to heaven the moment we die "Why would you want to raise a dead body when you are already alive in heaven?"

No one including God would need to raise a dead body if that person was already living in heaven. But if one is still in the grave and not in heaven then God would need to speak that person out of the grave. Which God will do on the day of resurrection of the dead in Christ. Because no one is already in heaven. :clap:

The greatness of the question lies in the mind of the beholder. The reason you would want to raise a dead body is because it is dead and the spirit that has gone to be with the Lord does not have a body. Paul describes in 1 Cor 15 what will happen to the bodies of the dead saints first and then those that are alive. The saints are waiting for their resurrected bodies as this passage shows and what this verse is saying in Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Why Paul tells us this is a better question---------------at least to me! But, what do I know ? Well, it is scriptural.

[John Robinson]

"Soul sleep," which Massorite seems to be advocating, is a tenet of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and definitely has no basis in scripture.

[Bible_Gazer]

Well you know its kinda funny or weird when you go to a funeral home some preacher, preach the person went to

heaven and we are gonna meet them someday.

Then.... you go to the grave yard then they preach about them gonna get resurrected.

are they dead or alive ?

Jesus came to do something different then what the OT offered.

He came to give us victory over death and the grave now, not later.

The OT saints, all they ever got was a promise of a resurrection from the dead.

Jesus made a better way.

Question = what is the dead in Christ ?

are you dead or are you alive ?

Read Romans 6 - how many ways are we dead

is there anything showing dead in the grave for us ?

[John Robinson]

When I was a kid I collected pop bottles alongside the road, because back in the day you could turn them in at your local grocers and they'd give you a dime a piece for them. The grocer in turn would return them to the bottlers, who'd clean them, sterilize them, and then refill them with fresh pop.

For we Christians, it's the same with our bodies. When we die, our spirits immediately go to be with Jesus in heaven ("to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"; no gap of time indicated at all), while our poor old bodies, just like those empty pop bottles, "lie a-moulderin' in the grave," as the old song puts it.

But someday God will resurrect those bodies, instantly making them clean and new and just like Jesus' own body--strong, healthy, able to travel the heavens at the speed of thought, glorified, if you will--and we'll take up residence in them once again. Pretty sweet!