So we have arrived.

[Guest man]

Do you have scripture to show that God leads into deception?

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is clear to me that God is the one who sends the delusion. The only aspect of this verse we are seeking to understand is that he is the one who sent the delusion. Nothing else matters. We cannot get away from the fact that God sent a delusion that they might believe a lie.

How about the context in which that statement was made?

Care to elaborate?

That verse pertains to an event that has yet to take place.

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

² not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

³ Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

⁴ who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

⁵ Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

⁶ And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

⁷ For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

⁹ The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

¹⁰ and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

¹¹ And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

¹² that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Care to elaborate?

If you don't understand that passage, you have no business calling yourself a prophet.

[Guest man]

Do you have scripture to show that God leads into deception?

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is clear to me that God is the one who sends the delusion. The only aspect of this verse we are seeking to understand is that he is the one who sent the delusion. Nothing else matters. We cannot get away from the fact that God sent a delusion that they might believe a lie.

How about the context in which that statement was made?

Care to elaborate?

That verse pertains to an event that has yet to take place.

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

² not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

³ Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

⁴ who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

⁵ Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

⁶ And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

⁷ For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

⁹ The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

¹⁰ and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

¹¹ And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

¹² that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Care to elaborate?

I just realized something...........................you're trying to get the thread closed.

Shame on you.

[gdemoss]

Do you have scripture to show that God leads into deception?

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is clear to me that God is the one who sends the delusion. The only aspect of this verse we are seeking to understand is that he is the one who sent the delusion. Nothing else matters. We cannot get away from the fact that God sent a delusion that they might believe a lie.

How about the context in which that statement was made?

Care to elaborate?

That verse pertains to an event that has yet to take place.

2 Thessalonians 2

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,

² not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

³ Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

⁴ who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

⁵ Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

⁶ And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

⁷ For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

⁹ The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

¹⁰ and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

¹¹ And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

¹² that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Care to elaborate?

If you don't understand that passage, you have no business calling yourself a prophet.

Man, I ask you to elaborate because your words are to few to understand your position and the depth of what your saying. If you will, please elaborate. You further accuse me of trying to get the thread locked when I have the ability to lock it myself. Maybe it would do you some good to take a step back and reconsider where those thoughts are coming from and who is seeking to lead you to what.

I simply want to have an open discussion. It is my experience that you have never said anything positive concerning my posts. We are told to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. I simply encourage you to reconsider your motives for engaging me altogether.

Peace in Christ

[Guest man]

Man, I ask you to elaborate because your words are to few to understand your position and the depth of what your saying. If you will, please elaborate. You further accuse me of trying to get the thread locked when I have the ability to lock it myself. Maybe it would do you some good to take a step back and reconsider where those thoughts are coming from and who is seeking to lead you to what.

I simply want to have an open discussion. It is my experience that you have never said anything positive concerning my posts. We are told to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. I simply encourage you to reconsider your motives for engaging me altogether.

That's because much of what you say is questionable. Some of it is flat out lying. Your words have the potential of reaching countless thousands and if you were discussing anything other than God and His truth I wouldn't care. But you're not. You're portraying a false image of what the truth actually is. God is not a deceiver and for you to proclaim that He is, is satanic in nature. I'm not saying that out of hatred, I'm saying that because it's true.

[Hippie333]

I normally will not engage in forum debates, but the scripture man is elaborating on is self explanatory .....secondly, the most disturbing things I have found throughout this post are a) the I declare the date to be b) I could be wrong but c) I feel the Lord has - . If a man were a prophet of God he may consider the use of the word "I " in much less use?

[Guest man]

I normally will not engage in forum debates, but the scripture man is elaborating on is self explanatory .....secondly, the most disturbing things I have found throughout this post are a) the I declare the date to be b) I could be wrong but c) I feel the Lord has - . If a man were a prophet of God he may consider the use of the word "I " in much less use?

Thank you.

[gdemoss]

Man, I ask you to elaborate because your words are to few to understand your position and the depth of what your saying. If you will, please elaborate. You further accuse me of trying to get the thread locked when I have the ability to lock it myself. Maybe it would do you some good to take a step back and reconsider where those thoughts are coming from and who is seeking to lead you to what.

I simply want to have an open discussion. It is my experience that you have never said anything positive concerning my posts. We are told to be wise as serpents and gentle as doves. I simply encourage you to reconsider your motives for engaging me altogether.

That's because much of what you say is questionable. Some of it is flat out lying. Your words have the potential of reaching countless thousands and if you were discussing anything other than God and His truth I wouldn't care. But you're not. You're portraying a false image of what the truth actually is. God is not a deceiver and for you to proclaim that He is, is satanic in nature. I'm not saying that out of hatred, I'm saying that because it's true.

So your not going to elaborate on your exegesis of the text? I was hoping you would shed light upon why you think that it isn't saying that God is sending the delusion. And now you call me a liar. Aren't you supposed to be debating the doctrine and not the person?

I normally will not engage in forum debates, but the scripture man is elaborating on is self explanatory .....secondly, the most disturbing things I have found throughout this post are a) the I declare the date to be b) I could be wrong but c) I feel the Lord has - . If a man were a prophet of God he may consider the use of the word "I " in much less use?

Again, attacking the character of the poster and not that which was posted. Why is this? Can't we discuss the topic at hand. You state that the text is clear and I agree, it is clear. But what isn't clear is what everyone seems to think is so clear about the text. The thoughts of the people here are being hidden behind simple statements that declare the text to be clear. Please elaborate if you will on the clarity of the text.

[Guest man]

I normally will not engage in forum debates, but the scripture man is elaborating on is self explanatory .....secondly, the most disturbing things I have found throughout this post are a) the I declare the date to be b) I could be wrong but c) I feel the Lord has - . If a man were a prophet of God he may consider the use of the word "I " in much less use?

I noticed that too. Self-glorification.

Good post.

[Sevenseas]

sevenseas, on 13 February 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Do you have scripture to show that God leads into deception?

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

This is clear to me that God is the one who sends the delusion. The only aspect of this verse we are seeking to understand is that he is the one who sent the delusion. Nothing else matters. We cannot get away from the fact that God sent a delusion that they might believe a lie.

My point is that if I am deceived it is because I believe God is someone that he is not. You see, I am obeying him as I understand him to be. If I have been deceived into following lies about who God is and what it means to obey him, then I fit the category here of one who has not received a love of the truth.

Where this takes us is into many other doctrines. Some people twist the word of God to make homosexuality OK with God. These have not received a love of the truth. Many, many other examples can be shown, much of which will be very controversial, even as these very statements of mine are controversial in nature because they call into question all the debate that goes on here at worthy over various doctrines. It is certain that there are those here that have not received a love of the truth and for that cause have received a delusion from God. I cannot say that I can be 100% convinced that I am not being deceived due to various factors. All I can do is speak as I understand that which is true and place my faith in God that I am being shown truth.

What is the just cause? This is not talking about those who are saved

Back up a bit: The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Read it with Romans 1 in mind...is that you? If so, you are not saved

You cannot make a doctrine out of one verse and God does not deliberately full those who are His...you cannot operate on that principal

A person (Christian) can certainly be deceived, but the verse you supply would not be the support for that to occur...it is similar to

God tempting...does God tempt? Does God entice people to sin?

Just backtracked up the posts and it seems the above has already been clarified; so at which point are you going to listen here?

I am only addressing the verse of scripture you have chosen to portray God as possibly deceiving you...none of us agree that is

a possibility, so, if you are asking for others in Christ to say yay or nay, it would seem the consensus is nay in this case

I could not at all agree that God is deliberately deceiving you and has chosen to make a spectacle of you. I could say that you

may be deceived, but that would be a cause internal to yourself from which an outside source has found its way in and rooted

to bloom into deception

[Guest man]

So your not going to elaborate on your exegesis of the text? I was hoping you would shed light upon why you think that it isn't saying that God is sending the delusion. And now you call me a liar. Aren't you supposed to be debating the doctrine and not the person?

Where did I say that? Show me.

Context..........do you know what that is?