Was America ever a Christian Nation?

[Steve_S]

How do you explain scripture like this;

Zec 14:17

And it shall be, that whosoever will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

You really ought to look into Suzerian Vassal Covenant.

I think that this is drastically taken out of context for the purposes of this conversation. I'm no avowed expert on this or any particular Biblical topic, but let's look at it in context.

Zec 14:14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

Zec 14:15 Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So shall this plague be.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Zec 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

This looks very much to me like the time period that follows the tribulation, not present day. The feast of tabernacles has been reinstated and the King (Jesus) is ruling from Jerusalem. I don't understand how on earth you equate this with God blessing the modern united states with material wealth in a mutual covenant. I'd ask that you please provide more specific exposition of contextualized verses with regard to this particular topic to help me understand your position, because currently the BIblical foundation for your argument is incredibly lost upon me.

[Matthitjah]

How do you explain scripture like this;

Zec 14:17

And it shall be, that whosoever will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

You really ought to look into Suzerian Vassal Covenant.

I think that this is drastically taken out of context for the purposes of this conversation. I'm no avowed expert on this or any particular Biblical topic, but let's look at it in context.

Zec 14:14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

Zec 14:15 Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So shall this plague be.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Zec 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

This looks very much to me like the time period that follows the tribulation, not present day. The feast of tabernacles has been reinstated and the King (Jesus) is ruling from Jerusalem. I don't understand how on earth you equate this with God blessing the modern united states with material wealth in a mutual covenant. I'd ask that you please provide more specific exposition of contextualized verses with regard to this particular topic to help me understand your position, because currently the BIblical foundation for your argument is incredibly lost upon me.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. When Sodom and Gomorrah were taken away for the height of their sin were they in Covenant with God?

[amor]

The pilgrims also had a pretty nasty record too. I'm a Quaker and several of us were murdered by the Puritan regime merely for having the audacity to minister amongst them and then there was all that burning of women in Salem.

Correction: The Pilgrims were not Puritans.

Explanation

Sis, he doesn't care.

A rather snide comment there!

I care enough to be willing to point out that the "Covenant" you praise was made under the governorship of Winthrop leader of the" nast"y Puritans rather than the" nice" Pilgrims. His Puritanismis highlighted in Nebula's chart. His involvement in the covenant in one of your previous threads on the issue.

[Guest]

How do you explain scripture like this;

Zechariah 14:17

And it shall be, that whosoever will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

You really ought to look into Suzerian Vassal Covenant.

I think that this is drastically taken out of context for the purposes of this conversation. I'm no avowed expert on this or any particular Biblical topic, but let's look at it in context.

Zechariah 14:14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations Shall be gathered together: Gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance.

Zechariah 14:15 Such also shall be the plague On the horse and the mule, On the camel and the donkey, And on all the cattle that will be in those camps. So shall this plague be.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

This looks very much to me like the time period that follows the tribulation, not present day. The feast of tabernacles has been reinstated and the King (Jesus) is ruling from Jerusalem. I don't understand how on earth you equate this with God blessing the modern united states with material wealth in a mutual covenant. I'd ask that you please provide more specific exposition of contextualized verses with regard to this particular topic to help me understand your position, because currently the Biblical foundation for your argument is incredibly lost upon me.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. When Sodom and Gomorrah were taken away for the height of their sin were they in Covenant with God?

Oops~!

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. Matthew 10:14-18

May Be On Topic

May Not

~

A Little Extra Credit To LORD Jesus

Just For The Love Of The Fundamental Independent Quaker

And For The Muslim And Any Other Of The Many Beloved Folk Reading Worthy

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:8-13

Who May Have A Slow Burn Hatred For Israel Loving Americans

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34 (English Standard Version)

And A Flash Bang Reaction To Any Hebrew Jerusalem

The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. Joel 3:16

And The Remnant Jews Left Upon Earth

Thus says the Lord,

who gives the sun for light by day

and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,

who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—

the Lord of hosts is his name:

“If this fixed order departs

from before me, declares the Lord,

then shall the offspring of Israel cease

from being a nation before me forever.”

Thus says the Lord:

“If the heavens above can be measured,

and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,

then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel

for all that they have done,

declares the Lord.” Jeremiah 31:35-37 (English Standard Version)

May The LORD Bless The Reading Of His Word

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

Maranatha~!

Amen~!

[Guest man]

Actually, the country was founded on Judeo/Christian principles and you should really look into the covenant that the Pilgrims made with God when they landed here.

I would like to see the information regarding this covenant. Would you provide a link please.

[Guest]

Actually, the country was founded on Judeo/Christian principles and you should really look into the covenant that the Pilgrims made with God when they landed here....

I would like to see the information regarding this covenant. Would you provide a link please....

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereigne Lord, King James, by the grace of God, of Great Britaine, France and Ireland king, defender of the faith, etc. having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honour of our king and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northerne parts of Virginia, doe by these presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civill body politick, for our better ordering and preservation, and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enacte, constitute, and frame such just and equall laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meete and convenient for the generall good of the Colonie unto which we promise all due submission and obedience. In witness whereof we have hereunder subscribed our names at Cape-Codd the 11. of November, in the year of the raigne of our sovereigne lord, King James, of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fiftie-fourth. Anno Dom. 1620.... http://www.ushistory...s/mayflower.htm

And A Little Bit More

Plymouth barely subsisted through the early years as a farm community, but they lived a devout, simple, and peaceful life. In 1630 they applied for a proper charter to the Council for New England, and adopted a formal Constitution in 1636, affording a governor and seven assistants, to be elected from church members. Their economic situation improved with the settling of the wealthy Massachusetts Bay Colony in the 1630s, which put their grain and livestock in great demand. As the Town of Plymouth grew, Pilgrims in search of farmland created settlements in nearby Duxbury, Marshfield, and Scituate heading north, and Sandwich, Barnstable, Yarmouth, and Eastham heading eastwards around the Cape. The Plymouth Colony was joined to the Massachusetts Bay Colony to form the Royal Province of Massachusetts in 1691. http://biblescripture.net/Pilgrims.html

[Guest shiloh357]

Actually the Christian foundation on which this country was founded on is really beyond dispute. There is no shortage of conspiracy theorists and haters of the US who try to drag our Christian history through the mud sloppy historical references, like amor silly commonts about the "Puritans."

America is not the New Jerusalem and is not a perfect country with a perfect and pristine history. We have our share low points and things we are not proud of in our history. But those atrocities cannot be blamed on our Christian history. To do so is unfair and dishonest.

It was because of Christians in Virginia that we have a 1st Amendment that guarantees religious freedom. Had it not been for Baptists in Virginia, the United States would have been strapped with a state church. We would all probably be Episcopalians had it not been for John LeLand and others like Madison and Jefferson who stood up to men like John Adams (who favored a state church).

Our founding fathers were not angels and anyone who idolizes them and ignores their failings and shortcomings is brainwashed. But the fact is that the US was and is based on Christian priniciples and there is nothing that the simpletons, dregs and know-nothings on the liberal left can say that will change that. Those who try to tear down the Christian history of the US should not be taken seriously and their comments should be rejected by intelligent, thinking people.

[nebula]

The pilgrims also had a pretty nasty record too. I'm a Quaker and several of us were murdered by the Puritan regime merely for having the audacity to minister amongst them and then there was all that burning of women in Salem.

Correction: The Pilgrims were not Puritans.

Explanation

Sis, he doesn't care.

A rather snide comment there!

I care enough to be willing to point out that the "Covenant" you praise was made under the governorship of Winthrop leader of the" nast"y Puritans rather than the" nice" Pilgrims. His Puritanismis highlighted in Nebula's chart. His involvement in the covenant in one of your previous threads on the issue.

You were still incorrect in what you wrote, amor:

"The pilgrims also had a pretty nasty record too. I'm a Quaker and several of us were murdered by the Puritan regime merely for having the audacity to minister amongst them and then there was all that burning of women in Salem."

And doing a little on-line research, I see that the Quakers were not acting as upstanding citizens themselves.

The Quakers were bound by the same Spirit of Religion that the Puritans were, just wearing a different mask.

[JTC]

The answer to the OP question is America was always a Christian nation. In fact one reason many people came here was to worship God as they saw fit. That's why we have separation between church and state. Because about 400 or 500 years ago, the king or the government of each European nation dictated to the people how they should worship God. What they should believe etc. And that was one of the main things the people who came here didn't want. We were to be tolerant and accepting of each others ways of worshiping God.

Now granted there were problems. The protestant churches didn't want to accept the Catholics, and visa versa. And both groups didn't want to accept Jewish people because they didn't accept that Jesus Christ is God, and that's something Protestants and Catholics agreed upon.

But this question, as well as what is happening today in America, is exactly what my generation, and my parents generations feared when God and prayer was taken out of the schools.

Little by little ungodly people are taking over and getting their way. I personally believe these people did this because they want to live a life of sin, and no religion allows for the kinds of sin these people want to live.

So I guess it's taken about 40 years but we now have young people asking if America was ever a Christian nation, and it always was. If not then why do all towns and cities have so many churches? They weren't built for the heck of it. They were built to be worshiped in.

[other one]

i wish I was home and could post several long video's concerning our early days, but might I just make the comment that our government itself has not been Christian (you can look at the architecture of Washington to see what kind of government we set up), however our people were Christian and still there are a huge number of us that are Christian.

This nation was made great by Christian people with a very special work ethic that a constitutional government gave the freedom to exist and grow.

The government and our laws are not necessarily Christian, but they are set up for a high moral people.... the further away from that high moral people we drift from, the worse our country will get until it outright fails.