Was America ever a Christian Nation?

[xero]

I dont think God cares about the artificial persons we make up be they nations or corporations.

[JTC]

I was in a bad state of mind back on 9/11. But I seem to recall that most of the senators were on the steps of the congressional building singing "God Bless America", or one of the similar songs. I admit I found that almost hypocritical because we threw God out of schools, and because we're going in the direction of sin with our laws, etc. But the fact that they did sing that song after the attack on the twin towers meant something.

I was raised believing America was founded on Judeo Christian principles. Did we screw it up? Yes I guess we did. But I'm still shocked by how many of you don't think we were ever a Christian nation.

So now we know why abortion became legal, divorce and remarriage is as common as buying a new car is, and why we're about to make homosexuality as legal as heterosexuality. It all makes perfect sense now. But I still don't get it.

So if America isn't a nation that represents Christianity, which nation does? Or do you all think none do?

This is all very disconcerting, to say the least.

[wingnut-]

I don't believe any nation is a Christian nation, regardless of how many Christians live within it. The reason for this is fairly simple, because not one nation mentions Jesus anywhere in founding documents, including this nation. Jesus is the foundation for Christianity obviously, so to me it's absurd to say a nation is Christian without this declaration. Some want to claim the mention of a creator or the word God constitutes Christianity, and I say even ancient civilizations and empires had deities, as do Muslims, and even Israel. Does that make them Christian? Obviously not.

[Guest shiloh357]

So, taking the NT, removing the stuff you don't like, doesn't count as rewriting? What sort of solid believer in Christ rewrites the NT? I imagine if I presented to you a version of the NT with all the miracles cut out you'd be rather upset. Creative editing I suppose. This isn't 'revisionist' history. Nothing I said was untrue. I never said being masons precluded anyone from being a Christian. The point is that the case is not a clear cut "they were all solid Christians first and foremost interested in promoting Christian values. They had, as matter of fact, lots of non Christian influences as well. And really, who cares? The fundamental question is, whether or not the founding fathers being Christians, what kind of Christians, how committed, even matters for the status of the nation vis a vis God because that is not what I was critiquing.

As far as attacking strawmen re covenants, apparently you haven't read the entire thread, which I find odd, that you'd pick out my post out of everything without looking at the previous discussions that I was actually responding to.

As I stated Thomas Jefferson was a man of his times. He lived during the "Age of Reason." As I previously noted, I believe Thomas Jefferson was not trying to "rewrite" the Bible, i.e., he was not trying create a new version of the Bible that suited him. He simply edited his own personal copy. In the "Age of Reason," they did not take the supernatural accounts in Scripture literally. Many did not believe they happened at all. Thomas Jefferson was consistent with many who held those views.

And yes, much of what you state I believe is revisionist history. I have heard the same tripe emanating from the History Channel, and the History Channel promotes the same kind of liberal, pop, historical revisionism that in my opinion you are promoting here.

What sort of solid believer in Christ rewrites the NT?

My question is as follows: What sort of solid believer doesn't agree with what the Bible says about the immorality and sinfulness of homosexuality? I believe you tend to discard the parts of the Bible you don't like and then criticize others for the same thing.

I don't think anyone was making the case that all the founding fathers were foremostly interested in was promoting Christian values. I didn't get that from anyone's posting, here. Again, you are trying refute arguments that haven't been raised. I also don't see any Americans claiming that we have/had a special covenant with God.

Edited March 6, 2013 by shiloh357
<< To tone down argument... And remove quotes. >>

[Guest shiloh357]

Your can accusations of me gathering my history from the History Channel are unfounded. What I have presented I believe to be historical. I find your attempt to make excuses for Jefferson interesting. Is it possible that my view could be right in this case? Jefferson was a man of his times? That is a very interesting perspective.

If you look back you'll see I did not say you got your history from the History Channel. I stated that I see the same kind of revisionist history as seen on the History Channel.

I personally don't believe people have time to go through all the historical innaccuracies. Still I believe it has been noticed.

I am not making excuses for Jefferson. He was wrong. I am simply putting his actions in their historical context. He cut parts out of his Bible that he didn't accept as literal.

Again, I believe you reject the parts of the Bible you don't want to believe, so you really have no moral ground to criticize Jefferson when IMO you are guilty of the same thing, when it comes to homosexuality. So your criticisms of him in my opinion should not be taken seriously.

Edited March 6, 2013 by shiloh357
<< To tone down argument... And remove quotes. >>

[nebula]

The over 35 crowd was definitely taught a different American history than those after us. And the over 60 crowd certainly were taught a different American history than we did.

But what I am seeing in this debate is a different understanding by folks of what a "Christian nation" means.

My perspective:

The country was definitely founded on Judean-Christian morality and values. Even the Deists and Masons quoted from the Bible and held God in honor!

Philosophically, though, there was a mixture of Judeo-Christian Theism with the Enlightenment philosophies.

Honoring the Christian God was a part of the culture.

But no, with the exception of the founding of some of the colonies, particularly northern colonies, the country was not founded on the Cross of Christ.

[Guest man]

As I stated and you conveniently ignored, Thomas Jefferson was a man of his times. He lived during the "Age of Reason." As I previously noted, Thomas Jefferson was not trying to "rewrite" the Bible, i.e., he was not trying create a new version of the Bible that suited him. He simply edited his own personal copy. In the "Age of Reason," they did not take the supernatural accounts in Scripture literally. Many did not believe they happened at all. Thomas Jefferson was consistent with many who held those views.

That would make them as well as Jefferson, non-believers.

[nebula]

but I don't see any reason to suspect that the US has a special, pro-God role in things to come, anymore than I would suspect that of GB, or Japan, or Australia or whatever else.

It depends on what you are looking at.

Neither GB, Japan, nor Australia were colonized by people seeking religious freedom (Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and the like).

Rev. Robert Hunt (1568–1608), the first chaplain of Jamestown offered the following prayer on April 29, 1607 when the settlers planted a cross at Cape Henry (now Virginia Beach, Virginia):

We do hereby dedicate this Land, and ourselves, to reach the People within these shores with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and to raise up Godly generations after us, and with these generations take the Kingdom of God to all the earth. May this Covenant of Dedication remain to all generations, as long as this earth remains, and may this Land, along with England, be Evangelist to the World. May all who see this Cross, remember what we have done here, and may those who come here to inhabit join us in this Covenant and in this most noble work that the Holy Scriptures may be fulfilled.

Source 1

Source 2

As for the pro-God role, as you called it, America used to dominate in the spreading of the Gospel around the globe.

But have you considered why we have a few patriotic songs that mention God in them? Don't you think that means something - or at least meant something?

[Steve_S]

If this were indeed a Christian nation upon it's founding, where is the evangelism? Spreading the Word is one of the basic tenets of the faith. Why is there no mention of salvation through Christ in our constitution?

[Matthitjah]

If this were indeed a Christian nation upon it's founding, where is the evangelism? Spreading the Word is one of the basic tenets of the faith. Why is there no mention of salvation through Christ in our constitution?

We have consistently sent Missionary's all over the world up until recently. We were Blessed to be a Blessing. Because of our Judeo/Christian roots we were enabled to be Blessed.

That is the point of the Original post which was split from another thread.

We are perilously endagered right now because we have abandoned God and His Law. When you follow God and His rpinciples you will be Blessed. There is no doubt that this Nation has been abundently blessed beyond measure. How do we now thank God? We stick a finger in His eye!