Salvation

[His_disciple3]

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:19,20

Ye see then how that by works is a man justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from teh beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:7,8

If man said that "simple believe will not get you into the kingdom of heaven," it appears he is right. The Bible says the devils have that and tremble.

surely you understand that there is a saving faith and a working faith, and that james is addressing the working faith. so with that said if not, let me show you the difference, Jesus told the Disciples once not to rejoice that they had powers over the demons, but to rejoice that their names were written in heaven. then later Peter walked on the water. but Peter's faith to walk on that water, had nothing to do with His name being written in Heaven. so james is saying if you have faith to work(walk on water) but don't work(walk on water) then what good is your faith, but my friend my faith in what I can do for the Lord has nothing to do with my faith in what the Lord has done for me. so james is addressing the working faith which has nothing to do with salvation. but in a round about way, it could pose a question to you concerning your gospel of salvation, for If I believe James 5 in that anointing with oil and praying for the sick, can heal the sick, but I never try it then what good is my faith, so if you believe that God saved you, but you never received that salvation, then what good has your salvational faith done you. I am saved and will be kept saved by God until I receive that Gift of salvation from God, nothing I can do to sperate me from the Love of my God, But I will not test that love by doing thing that seem right to me.

[His_disciple3]

None of the above has anything to do with keeping the law which is self righteousness.

Is anyone here advocating strict adherence to the law?

let's see would If anyone willfully sin fall under "advocating strict adherence to the law" or not??

Edited March 17, 2013 by His_disciple3

[Guest man]

And that's the point of everything going on here. Those people in that passage from Matthew were trusting in their works, not God.

On this we agree. Yet, many would take this passage and say "see, you can place your trust in Christ and still go to hell". When in reality these people never were in Christ to begin with. Christ gave a similar illustration with the Pharisee and the publican. The Pharisee trusted his own works of righteousness and performance, where as the publican simply fell on the mercy of God and was Justified. Christ himself is our mercy seat, our place where God meets us with Mercy and declares us righteous based on the Holy work that Christ did. Justified by God himself. Our works cannot add or take away from this. Scripture calls it the gift of righteousness. Please understand that James is not declaring how we are saved, but rather the effects of true faith. It is wrong to tell a man or woman that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save them. If any man teaches that salvation comes by faith+works, he has polluted the pure gospel message, and is to be accursed. Myself included.

James 2

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If someone's faith is dead, is that person saved?

[asper]

None of the above has anything to do with keeping the law which is self righteousness.

Is anyone here advocating strict adherence to the law?

let's see would If anyone willfully sin fall under "advocating strict adherence to the law" or not??

If someone were to advocate keeping the law for salvation that would certainly fit because the hebrews were being warned about going back.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.

35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

[asper]

And that's the point of everything going on here. Those people in that passage from Matthew were trusting in their works, not God.

On this we agree. Yet, many would take this passage and say "see, you can place your trust in Christ and still go to hell". When in reality these people never were in Christ to begin with. Christ gave a similar illustration with the Pharisee and the publican. The Pharisee trusted his own works of righteousness and performance, where as the publican simply fell on the mercy of God and was Justified. Christ himself is our mercy seat, our place where God meets us with Mercy and declares us righteous based on the Holy work that Christ did. Justified by God himself. Our works cannot add or take away from this. Scripture calls it the gift of righteousness. Please understand that James is not declaring how we are saved, but rather the effects of true faith. It is wrong to tell a man or woman that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save them. If any man teaches that salvation comes by faith+works, he has polluted the pure gospel message, and is to be accursed. Myself included.

James 2

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If someone's faith is dead, is that person saved?

My personal opinion is that if faith does not have works then it is indeed dead and that would indicate not having saving faith.

Our faith is a living faith and has works.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

But what exactly are you preaching?

Are you saying that you have to work for your salvation? Or is it some additional thing you must do for salvation?

I would say that I am at a loss to see your point.

Do you think that the works are from yourself and not generated by faith?

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

We call (a work of faith)

Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

We draw near (a work of faith)

In conclusion,

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

So who or what can beat that.

[Guest man]

And that's the point of everything going on here. Those people in that passage from Matthew were trusting in their works, not God.

On this we agree. Yet, many would take this passage and say "see, you can place your trust in Christ and still go to hell". When in reality these people never were in Christ to begin with. Christ gave a similar illustration with the Pharisee and the publican. The Pharisee trusted his own works of righteousness and performance, where as the publican simply fell on the mercy of God and was Justified. Christ himself is our mercy seat, our place where God meets us with Mercy and declares us righteous based on the Holy work that Christ did. Justified by God himself. Our works cannot add or take away from this. Scripture calls it the gift of righteousness. Please understand that James is not declaring how we are saved, but rather the effects of true faith. It is wrong to tell a man or woman that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save them. If any man teaches that salvation comes by faith+works, he has polluted the pure gospel message, and is to be accursed. Myself included.

James 2

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If someone's faith is dead, is that person saved?

My personal opinion is that if faith does not have works then it is indeed dead and that would indicate not having saving faith.

Our faith is a living faith and has works.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

But what exactly are you preaching?

Are you saying that you have to work for your salvation? Or is it some additional thing you must do for salvation?

I would say that I am at a loss to see your point.

I was addressing this before the commotion. ( the OP )

When a person has given their life to Christ Jesus and drift back into whe world ....and not repent ...will they be lost and go to hell

[His_disciple3]

And that's the point of everything going on here. Those people in that passage from Matthew were trusting in their works, not God.

On this we agree. Yet, many would take this passage and say "see, you can place your trust in Christ and still go to hell". When in reality these people never were in Christ to begin with. Christ gave a similar illustration with the Pharisee and the publican. The Pharisee trusted his own works of righteousness and performance, where as the publican simply fell on the mercy of God and was Justified. Christ himself is our mercy seat, our place where God meets us with Mercy and declares us righteous based on the Holy work that Christ did. Justified by God himself. Our works cannot add or take away from this. Scripture calls it the gift of righteousness. Please understand that James is not declaring how we are saved, but rather the effects of true faith. It is wrong to tell a man or woman that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save them. If any man teaches that salvation comes by faith+works, he has polluted the pure gospel message, and is to be accursed. Myself included.

James 2

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If someone's faith is dead, is that person saved?

look, the one thing that must be established concerning the Word of God, is that there is no contradiction in that word. at times there may appear to be some contradictions, but there simply can't be. so seeing that salvation is clearly explained as:

Eph 2:8-10 KJV

(8)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(9)

Not of works, lest any man should boast.(10)

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

then your understanding of james has to be wrong , we do good works after we are in Christ, not to get to be in Christ

[OneLight]

One passage that I don't remember seeing is that of Titus 2:11-14:

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Works by the law does not save us. Though the law is perfect, it cannot make us perfect. The law is salvation for those who do not break one of them, but we are imperfect and do break them, so the Law does not save us. Grace removes the law and does save. Grace gives us the Holy Spirit and with Him in us, through Him, we can live a godly life. We have been given everything we need. We just have to accept it and live in it, stopping the doubting that tries to rob us of this blessing.

Ephesians 1:3-6

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

[Elhanan]

I initially posted this on an older topic until I just found this current discussion so reposting here: Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of, - or it is indeed - the main point of the passage. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is focused on the person of the son, not the father. Essentially, it teaches that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul reiterates Jesus' teaching to his fellow brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

[Guest man]

I initially posted this on an older topic until I just found this current discussion so reposting here: Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of, - or it is indeed - the main point of the passage. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is focused on the person of the son, not the father. Essentially, it teaches that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul reiterates Jesus' teaching to his fellow brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

Good post.

Thank you and welcome to Worthy.