Salvation

[His_disciple3]

And that's the point of everything going on here. Those people in that passage from Matthew were trusting in their works, not God.

On this we agree. Yet, many would take this passage and say "see, you can place your trust in Christ and still go to hell". When in reality these people never were in Christ to begin with. Christ gave a similar illustration with the Pharisee and the publican. The Pharisee trusted his own works of righteousness and performance, where as the publican simply fell on the mercy of God and was Justified. Christ himself is our mercy seat, our place where God meets us with Mercy and declares us righteous based on the Holy work that Christ did. Justified by God himself. Our works cannot add or take away from this. Scripture calls it the gift of righteousness. Please understand that James is not declaring how we are saved, but rather the effects of true faith. It is wrong to tell a man or woman that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save them. If any man teaches that salvation comes by faith+works, he has polluted the pure gospel message, and is to be accursed. Myself included.

James 2

17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If someone's faith is dead, is that person saved?

My personal opinion is that if faith does not have works then it is indeed dead and that would indicate not having saving faith.

Our faith is a living faith and has works.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

But what exactly are you preaching?

Are you saying that you have to work for your salvation? Or is it some additional thing you must do for salvation?

I would say that I am at a loss to see your point.

I was addressing this before the commotion. ( the OP )

When a person has given their life to Christ Jesus and drift back into whe world ....and not repent ...will they be lost and go to hell

well if that is the case where is the doctrine of chastisement, for If you sin the Father whom loves you chastens you, no where does it say that He will kick you out of the family, His mercy endures forever, He will never leave you nor forsake. Jude Says that Jesus presents us to the Father who is able to keep us

[His_disciple3]

I initially posted this on an older topic until I just found this current discussion so reposting here: Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of, - or it is indeed - the main point of the passage. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is focused on the person of the son, not the father. Essentially, it teaches that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul reiterates Jesus' teaching to his fellow brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

Good post.

Thank you and welcome to Worthy.

bad teaching my friend, the son being lost is that the earthly father in this parable didn't know where the son was, that Heavenly father knows all things, you have overlooked a very important teaching in this parable, even when the son was the fartherest away from the Father, He said in My Father's house, He always had the loving Father, the relationship was not broken by anything the son did, or regardless where the Son was the relationship was sealed. the fellowship was broken not the relationship. so the son could not had been lost in the sense you put it, that he had to become a son all over again,

Edited March 18, 2013 by His_disciple3

[asper]

I initially posted this on an older topic until I just found this current discussion so reposting here: Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of, - or it is indeed - the main point of the passage. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is focused on the person of the son, not the father. Essentially, it teaches that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul reiterates Jesus' teaching to his fellow brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

since we are repeating posts i might as well join in with the answer i gave to your post,

Your conclusion is not very likely,

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

When was Paul alive? When did the commandment come?

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

2 Samuel 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

And about the verse in Romans you quoted without any context,

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 ¶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you really think everyone in the church is truly saved?

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Basically

if it walks like a hog, and talks like a hog, it is probably a hog.

if it walks like a dog, and talks like a dog, it is probably a dog.

[saved34]

I'll tell you what, there is some good solid teaching going on in this thread. I've learned a lot just by reading this thread. Especially the knowledge that Asper and His_Disciple are presenting.

[RedMomma]

Godd question and i in return have one for you ok,do you think our Gods not powerful enough to keep you once youre saved?

[RedMomma]

Good* sorry reds still learning typing,forgive her mistakes on here please

[Elhanan]

I initially posted this on an older topic until I just found this current discussion so reposting here: Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of, - or it is indeed - the main point of the passage. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is focused on the person of the son, not the father. Essentially, it teaches that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul reiterates Jesus' teaching to his fellow brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

Good post.

Thank you and welcome to Worthy.

bad teaching my friend, the son being lost is that the earthly father in this parable didn't know where the son was, that Heavenly father knows all things, you have overlooked a very important teaching in this parable, even when the son was the fartherest away from the Father, He said in My Father's house, He always had the loving Father, the relationship was not broken by anything the son did, or regardless where the Son was the relationship was sealed. the fellowship was broken not the relationship. so the son could not had been lost in the sense you put it, that he had to become a son all over again,

One needs to be faithful to the Greek text regarding the word "lost" and define it according to the meaning of the word "apololos" which means “destroy,” “perish,” “loss,” and “lost.” This word does not simply describe the loss of a physical relationship but conveys spiritual destruction and spiritual estrangement from God. Jesus used the same word when referencing his mission on earth: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost (apololos)" (Lk:19:10). As commonly understood, Jesus is referring to the unsaved in this verse. Therefore to be consistent in interpretation, I see no problem in describing the lost state of the prodigal as being unsaved. Edited March 19, 2013 by Elhanan

[Elhanan]

since we are repeating posts i might as well join in with the answer i gave to your post,

Your conclusion is not very likely,

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

When was Paul alive? When did the commandment come?

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

2 Samuel 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

And about the verse in Romans you quoted without any context,

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 ¶ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 ¶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you really think everyone in the church is truly saved?

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Basically

if it walks like a hog, and talks like a hog, it is probably a hog.

if it walks like a dog, and talks like a dog, it is probably a dog.

I assume you are making a comparison between Paul's reference to being alive at one time apart from the law and those examples of peoples who do not distinguish the sin in their lives because they do not have or understand the law by which they are judged and held accountable, i.e., children. I have no problem with that as it is a legitimate comparison as Paul was once a child. However if you are attempting to compare those examples with the prodigal being alive, you seem to have missed the point. The prodigal was aware of his sin and the need to repent and ask forgiveness. His older brother accuses his prodigal brother of transgressing the commandment of their father and wasting his inheritance on harlots. Thus to claim that the prodigal was alive in the sense of not yet having the law is quite a stretch to say the least. Like his older brother the prodigal was well aware of the law. Secondly, your claim of my quoting Rom 8:13 without context is without merit. Many OSAS advocates are very fond of quoting Rom 8:1 without quoting the whole verse: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Admittedly not all Bible translations include this latter clause depending on the manuscript translated from. Nonetheless, it does not matter since Paul essentially repeats the same thing later in Rom 8:4 - "that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Lastly, you ask if I really think everyone in the church is truly saved. Your question is actually a false dilemma but since you ask my answer is "no" - some were not true converts to begin with. In asking your question you believe that scripture passages that appear to say that a believer can lose their eternal security only refer to those who were not truly saved to begin - in other words false converts. In order to do so, you will have to contend with the plain warning contained in 1 Tim 3:6: "He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil." Edited March 19, 2013 by Elhanan

[His_disciple3]

I initially posted this on an older topic until I just found this current discussion so reposting here: Did Jesus have anything to say about this topic? If he did, then naturally his view would carry the most weight of all. Examine Luke 15. We know that Jesus often used parables to teach spiritual truth to those discerning enough to apprehend its meaning. We also know that when something is repeated more than once, especially in the span of just a few verses, it is very important to take note of, - or it is indeed - the main point of the passage. Having said this, let's take a look at what Jesus said about the prodigal son. Most sermons and teachings focus on the person of God and his grace and mercy to forgive when the prodigal returned back to his father's household. While this is absolutely true, notice however that the father repeats himself twice in vss. 24 and 32. What does he say? "For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." and "because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found..." Based on these parallel statements, one can deduce that the main point of this parable is focused on the person of the son, not the father. Essentially, it teaches that the son was spiritually alive when he abided in his father's household, but he died (spiritual death) when he strayed from his father and chose to follow a lifestyle of habitual sin and disobedience. Thus he became lost (unsaved). Notice though that the father proclaims that his son became alive AGAIN (spiritual life) and was found (saved) upon his repentance and return to his father. Moral of the story: one can be a son (believer) but go one's own way (instead of following The Way) and thus become dead (spiritual death). However, upon repentance marked by turning away from sin, someone who is lost (unsaved) can be found (saved) and made spiritually alive again through God's gracious forgiveness. Paul reiterates Jesus' teaching to his fellow brethren living in Rome when he warns them: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live" (Rom 8:13).

Good post.

Thank you and welcome to Worthy.

bad teaching my friend, the son being lost is that the earthly father in this parable didn't know where the son was, that Heavenly father knows all things, you have overlooked a very important teaching in this parable, even when the son was the fartherest away from the Father, He said in My Father's house, He always had the loving Father, the relationship was not broken by anything the son did, or regardless where the Son was the relationship was sealed. the fellowship was broken not the relationship. so the son could not had been lost in the sense you put it, that he had to become a son all over again,

One needs to be faithful to the Greek text regarding the word "lost" and define it according to the meaning of the word "apololos" which means “destroy,” “perish,” “loss,” and “lost.” This word does not simply describe the loss of a physical relationship but conveys spiritual destruction and spiritual estrangement from God. Jesus used the same word when referencing his mission on earth: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost (apololos)" (Lk:19:10). As commonly understood, Jesus is referring to the unsaved in this verse. Therefore to be consistent in interpretation, I see no problem in describing the lost state of the prodigal as being unsaved.

one needs to stay true and faithful to any language. In english and greek words have different meaning and in english and in Greek the word lost can mean simply that" lose" so the father had a son know he is lost, as well as you guys who want to tear down the word of God and say that your doctrine contradicts "I will never leave you nor forsake you" did the father in the parable ever leave the son? No and even when the son condemned himself, the father just welcomed him back as if he was never gone. "what can separate us from the love of God" did the father ever quit loving the son. No NO No !!!!! to die or death ion scriptures is not always a spiritual death, as the father here said my son is dead, have you not ever heard a father and son have a falling out and the father will say as far as I am concern my son is dead!!!

yes apololos can mean perish, but it can mean "LOSE" and we all know that just because Jesus meant to perish in one part of the Bible that there is no rule in any language that says that apololos means from that point means to perish ever time we use it. so when you apololos your money, did it perish or was it destroyed or did you just lose it??? dosen't the word say we need to rightly divide, then we need to reconize death has two meanings and lost has more than one meaning

G622

a̓πόλλυμι

apollumi

ap-ol'-loo-mee

From

G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

[Elhanan]

Yes "lost" can have more than one meaning but the weakness of your argument is that when the word lost is employed in teaching spiritual truth, it usually always means not having eternal life or unsaved. Why does God go to great lengths to save the prodigal, sheep or coin? Simply because they were physically lost - hardly. It is because they are spiritually lost. In common church vernacular, we always refer to the lost as unsaved people so it is quite disingenuous to change one's interpretation to physically lost when it comes to reading these parables. Even if you define lost in the sense of loss or relationship with the father or God, isn't that the same as not having eternal life? After all, eternal life is being in the presence of God and enjoying him. When one is lost or separated from God by definition - one has no eternal life. That's why it is important for the branches to abide in the vine.