Passover and the Lord's supper communion

[Qnts2]

The Council of Jerusalem only commanded the Gentile believers only three things:

• abstain from pollutions of idols
  
• abstain from fornication
  
• abstain from things strangled, and from blood
  

¹⁹ Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

²⁰ But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:20

I see no mention of the Seder meal, and since the Lord's supper is symbolic to the body and blood of Christ I see no need for an elaborate Hebraic custom in under the New Covenant, IMO.

Your really not getting it. The symbology of the body and blood 'is in reference to' an elaborated Jewish custom. There is no seperating the two. Messiah is/was the wave offering as mentioned in Lev 23:9-14. Messiah used this Jewish commandment to symbolize His body and blood as the bread and wine, with Himself being the lamb sacirfice. Messiah taught this symbolism, as well as Paul. Both used the very same teaching.

The council at Jerusalem were Jews, the whole council elaborated from a Jewish mindset, the Messiah Himself was Jewish in regards to his physical nature. He used Jewish customs to communicate to His Jewish apostles. He did not remove them from their own culture to institue a new custom. This was accomplished fully by the Church, who teaches there is no need for Jewish things in the NT. You have been taught to throw the baby out with the bath water. And are finding no reason for the baby at all.

I'm not telling you to be or become Jewish. Let's get that real clear. I'm telling you that the 'no need for Jewish customs in the NT' is a propagation of the early church fathers that still stands strong today in the form of supersessionalism, or RT. This is a false teaching within the early church that is still being taught today.

Some things also found not in that list you quoted are murder, adultry, stealing, lying..... These are from the ten words given 'Israel' as commandements. So are these to be found needless as well? I would think not.

Well said.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/nicea1.txt

That link has the documents put out by the first council of Nicea, when the decision was made to eliminate anything Jewish from Christianity. The Christians in the eastern area and Alexandria were still celebrating Passover, and the council decided the entire church should celebrate Easter rather then Passover.

I am including a quote from one of the documents. It does contain language which I consider anti-semitic so if the mods would like to delete this post, that is fine.

CANON LII.

Usury and the base seeking of worldly gain is forbidden to the clergy,

also conversation and fellowship with Jews.

ON THE KEEPING OF EASTER.

From the Letter of the Emperor to all those not present at the Council.

(Found in Eusebius, Vita Const., Lib. iii., 18-20.)

When the question relative to the sacred festival of Easter arose, it was

universally thought that it would be convenient that all should keep the

feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable,

than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of

immortality, celebrated by all with one accord, and in the same

manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the

holiest of all festivals, to follow the custom[the calculation] of the

Jews, who had soiled their hands with the most fearful of crimes, and

whose minds were blinded. In rejecting their custom,(1) we may

transmit to our descendants the legitimate mode of celebrating Easter,

which we have observed from the time of the Saviour's Passion to the

present day[according to the day of the week]. We ought not,

therefore, to have anything in common with the Jews, for the Saviour

has shown us another way; our worship follows a more legitimate and

more convenient course(the order of the days of the week); and

consequently, in unanimously adopting this mode, we desire, dearest

brethren, to separate ourselves from the detestable company of the

Jews, for it is truly shameful for us to hear them boast that without

their direction we could not keep this feast. How can they be in the

right, they who, after the death of the Saviour, have no longer been led

by reason but by wild violence, as their delusion may urge them? They

do not possess the truth in this Easter question; for, in their blindness

and repugnance to all improvements, they frequently celebrate two

passovers in the same year. We could not imitate those who are openly

in error. How, then, could we follow these Jews, who are most

certainly blinded by error? for to celebrate the passover twice in one

year is totally inadmissible. But even if this were not so, it would still

be your duty not to tarnish your soul by communications with such

wicked people[the Jews].

So, the calendar timing was changed for the celebrations away from the OT calendar, and the names were changed. As well as anything considered Jewish.

So, things like, Passover, First Fruits wave offering, the counting of the Omer, Shavuot, Mikvah (baptism), etc etc etc, are practiced with new names and without the original explanations and symbolism to which they referred as pointers to Jesus, and fulfillments in Jesus.

As another example:

Jesus name in Hebrew is Yeshua. How did we get Jesus?

Well, Hebrew has it's own alphabet as does Greek. Some of the Hebrew letters do not have an equivalent sound in Greek, so when the writers of the NT wrote using the Greek alphabet, they transliterated the Hebrew name into Greek letters.

Greek did not have the Y sound so the closest they could come is an I. Greek did not have an SH sound and the closest was S. So roughly in English letters, the Greek was something like Iesous. In Greek, all male names ended with 'S' so an 'S' was added to make Yeshua a male name.

Later, the letter J was introduced but originally the letter 'J' had a Y sound.

Anyway, Hebrew names have meanings.

Yeshua means salvation.

Now, look at this verse.

Matthew 1:20But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. ²¹ She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Repeating verse 21 with the name change

²¹ She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Yeshua, for He will save His people from their sins.”

Repeating verse 21 with the Hebrew name actually translated

²¹ She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Salvation, for He will save His people from their sins.”

[Qnts2]

Just an additional comment.

I have no real issue with Easter, or Christmas. They have traditions which don't make sense to me, so I don't celebrate them, but they are to honor Jesus, so those who celebrate in honor of Jesus are certainly doing good.

Given the removal of Jewish roots, some of the things done in Churches have been divorced from their roots, so I believe it would be a benefit for Christians to see the actuall roots and reasons. When I take Christians thru some of the OT Jewish practices and show them in the NT, or some of the wording with Jewish origins, I have had many people suddenly understand a lot more then they did before, and have had people ask why they were never shown or taught these things before.

[Shimshon]

Just an additional comment.

I have no real issue with Easter, or Christmas. They have traditions which don't make sense to me, so I don't celebrate them, but they are to honor Jesus, so those who celebrate in honor of Jesus are certainly doing good.

Given the removal of Jewish roots, some of the things done in Churches have been divorced from their roots, so I believe it would be a benefit for Christians to see the actuall roots and reasons. When I take Christians thru some of the OT Jewish practices and show them in the NT, or some of the wording with Jewish origins, I have had many people suddenly understand a lot more then they did before, and have had people ask why they were never shown or taught these things before.

Agreed. And I will echo your comments. We are not to tear down but bear up under others. I also fellowship with a baptist church weekly. They are very interested when I lead studies in the Jewish roots of our faith. And I would never think of belittling their customs because I don't agree with them.

[nebula]

When I take Christians thru some of the OT Jewish practices and show them in the NT, or some of the wording with Jewish origins, I have had many people suddenly understand a lot more then they did before, and have had people ask why they were never shown or taught these things before.

I hope sometimes you may present some of these. I am familiar with some, but I am sure there are more.

[Botz]

Messiah did relate a new understanding using the bread and wine within the passover meal. It was new to those who missed it within the original commands. Messiah is the wave offering of the Pesach instructions. If you studied about the connection between Messiah and the sheaf wave offering the high priest does on the day after the sabbath, or third day of the feast, you would understand more about the bread and wine. Read Lev 23:9-14 and notice the connections. The high priest would take the very first sheaves of barley and wave them to the north, south, east, west, then offer a lamb, bread, and wine. It was an offering that the Lord was supposed to accept as the very first of the harvest. Hence the day is called Reishit Katzir, or first of the harvest. This represents Yeshua and his sacrifice. He is the firstborn of all creation, who offers himself to God as the Lamb, who is the living bread from heaven, and who's blood like wine is poured out for our redemption.

Apologies, I meant to get back to this sooner.

I have read this before, but still do not see a connection to Passover in the fullest sense...could you elaborate further or point me to some reading

on the subject....thanks.

This starts the counting of the omer, and in 49 days there is another feast, the third of the spring feasts, Shavuot/Pentecost. The beginning of the Church!! The feast of first fruits.

Right.

Christianity tends to eliminate any reference or connection to the Jewishness of Messiah and the disciples.

I know.

I disagree that Messiah intended to start 'the Lord's supper' in place of, or along side of, the passover celebration. This was not a 'this is for the church, that was for the Jews' thing. The assembly of believers at the time of the passover meal were all Jews observing a Jewish celebration. The teachings about the bread and the wine used the celebration as a canvas. In no place did Messiah say, 'when your coming together, outside of this celebration, like you do every day when you eat supper...do this...." He said when you are celebrating the feast of Passover, and you're breaking the bread and drinking the cups, do it in remembrance of me.

That is the sole context that I thought was being referred to....just Passover.

Nowhere in the gospels do we find the Jewish apostles teaching that their Jewish customs will not be accepted any longer, as Jews. Nowhere was it taught them that they had to remove themselves from observing the feasts. In fact, Paul states opposite. He says if you're born circumcised, stay circumcised. Don't think that just because of your calling in Messiah you have to forsake your circumcision. He said the same about gentiles. Remain who you are when you were called, outwardly. But be renewed within.

You won't hear me argue against that....I agree.

My only hesitation over some things is in line with Qnts2...they have become 'christian traditions' and should not be trampled

underfoot, but placed back within a proper context, given better meaning and hopefully some changes will become evident.

I believe without question the Church needs to relocate its Jewishness, and ditch some of the Gentile anti-Semitic attitudes

and customs that have passed on down the line, and which the Reformation did nothing to enhance.

[Willa]

Just an additional comment.

I have no real issue with Easter, or Christmas. They have traditions which don't make sense to me, so I don't celebrate them, but they are to honor Jesus, so those who celebrate in honor of Jesus are certainly doing good.

Given the removal of Jewish roots, some of the things done in Churches have been divorced from their roots, so I believe it would be a benefit for Christians to see the actuall roots and reasons. When I take Christians thru some of the OT Jewish practices and show them in the NT, or some of the wording with Jewish origins, I have had many people suddenly understand a lot more then they did before, and have had people ask why they were never shown or taught these things before.

Every few years our church celebrates a Chritianized Sedar, explaining the implications to Christians and how they point to Christ. It is one of the biggest blessings I have experienced. Since Christ fullfilled every jot and tittle, we are under no obligation to celebrate Jewish festivals and feasts. But they so illuminate the meanings of passages of Scripture. I envy Jewish Christians because the have the best of both worlds. What other Jews practice as a ritual they understand and see how all the Scriptures point to Christ. Even traditions that are not in scripture often have built in prophecy concerning Christ. There is so much symbolism involved.

Once when I was purchasing a Menorrah (with 7 candlesticks) i was able to witness to the Jewish sales lady how much of our New Testament was more meaningful to Jewish Christians, and how John used the 7 candle sticks of the Mennorah in the Temple to represent the 7 churches in Revelations and how it also pointed to their Messiah being the light of the world. She was amazed that a Gentile could love her people and the nation of Israel.

I have always envied Jewish Chritians because they can understand how their traditions also are fulfilled in Christ, even the ones that most Jews just do as a ritual and have no clue as to why like the fiddler on the roof. If we understood the Jewish feasts and the temple worship better we would also have a better understanding of the Bible. It just again points to the fact that we all are the body of Christ and we all need each other contributing our part. The foot can't say to the hand, I have no need of you. 1 Cor 12.

So it is with the Sedar. When I ate the meal as Jesus celebrated the feast, it somehow brought me closer to Him. Perhaps it is like touring Israel and walking where He walked. But I saw how the whole story points to Christ, from the blood of the Lamb on the door frame to the three pieces of matza in the napkin representing the Trinity. Yes, I hate horseradish. But I remembered the bitter suffering of the slavery in Egypt as we also suffer slavery to sin. I remember the blood of the Lamb as ratifying the New Covenant of grace, by which I am freed from sin and suffering. I see the holes in our communion unleavened bread as the holes and piercing of Christ's flesh, and I remember what it cost Him to set me free. I see the empty seat at the table and know that Elijah will come back to restore the faith of Israel as one of the 3 witnesses. I can't even remember 1/4 of what I learned but I want to do this again someday. Wish we did this every passover--even if my tongue does trip over Hebrew words. The Holy Spirit was not absent from the celebration. He was there enlightening us and glorifying Christ. The outpouring of the Holy Spirit comes at our Pentacost. The other Jewish feasts are prophetic as well, and I would like to study them more. But the Sedar was doing all in rememberance of what He did for us, like the church does in a Wednesday or Thursday service. It did not replace the Feast of the Resurrection on Sunday. But it did celebrate our being set free from the curse of slavery to sin and pointed to the New Covanent in His blood. The last cup will be drank when we celebrate the Sedar in Heaven with Jesus.

Our communion is to remember what Christ has done for us, too. But it is just a small segment of the Sedar. The rest of the Sedar may have been eliminated do the the abuses mentioned in Corinthians. But it is our loss.

I started to appreciate the Jewish heritage in the 70s when a little completed Jew gave his testamony at our church. He was a real character, but was so excited to have found his Messiah. His joy and exuberance were contageous as the living water of the Holy Spirit flowed out from him. But when he started jumping up and down he fell through the speakers platform and the whole church roared with laughter. He was so excited to have his half believed ritual become alive when he realized how it prophecied his Christ.

[clontzjm]

1Corinthians 10:16-18 The Cup of Blessing and the Eucharist

 

In “The New Testament and Rabbinic Judaism,” Daube explains the term “cup of blessing” in 1Corinthians 10:16. I’ll quote from page 330 in the section titled “the Omission of the Fourth Cup” –

 

Of the four cups of wine prescribed for the Passover-eve service, the third, over which grace is said, is to be taken immediately after the supper (Mish. Pes. 10.7) In technical language it appears as ‘the cup of blessing’, kos shel berakha, kasa’ debhirketha’ (Bab. Ber. 51a). According to the synoptics and Paul, this third cup is the cup of the New Covenant. Paul actually adopts its technical designation.

There is, however, in Matthew and Mark a reference also to the fourth and last cup of the Passover liturgy. It is contained in the words; ‘I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine until I drink it new in my father’s kingdom’ or ‘in the kingdom of God’. The meaning is that the fourth cup will not be taken, as would be the normal thing, at a subsequent stage of this service; it will be postponed till the kingdom is fully established.

 

Below is more information related to the cup of blessing and the Eucharist based on the cross reference notes in the Comprehensive New Testament:

 

TALMUD

 

The Talmud appears to have direct parallels between

 

Mark 14:25/Mishnah Pesahim 10.7B

Mark 14:34-37/Psalms 116:3-4/Mishnah Pesahim 10.7E

 

Psalms 116:3-4 is extremely similar to Mark 14:34, 37. It is interesting that the Mishnah Pesahim 10.7 gives an underlying basis for the similarity as Psalms 116:4 being part of the Hallel said at the fourth cup at Passover and Mark 14:34, 37 describes Jesus’ actions during Passover after the third cup and before the fourth cup. It is even more amazing that Mishnah Pesahim 10.7E indicates that part of the Hallel at Passover concerns the anguish of the Messiah. Psalms 116:13 which is part of the Passover Hallel parallels the Eucharist – “I will lift up the cup of salvation and call on the name of the Lord.” Below are the Talmudic quotes:



A. THEY MIXED THE THIRD CUP FOR HIM. HE SAYS A BLESSING FOR HIS FOOD.

1. I:1: Said R. Hanan to Raba, “That yields the inference that recitation of the

Grace after Meals requires a cup of wine.”

B. AND AT THE FOURTH CUP, HE COMPLETES THE HALLEL PSALMS AND AFTER IT HE SAYS THE GRACE OF SONG. BETWEEN THESE SEVERAL CUPS OF WINE, IF HE WANTS TO DRINK MORE WINE, HE MAY DO SO. BUT BETWEEN THE THIRD AND THE FOURTH CUP OF WINE, HE MAY NOT DRINK MORE WINE.

1. II:1: What is the meaning of the grace of song?

2. II:2: Our rabbis have taught on Tannaite authority: “At the fourth cup one

concludes the Hallel Psalms and recites the great Hallel,” the words of R. Tarfon.

And there are those who say, “‘The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want’

(Psa. 23: 1).”

C. TOPICAL COMPOSITE ON THE GREAT HALLEL

1. II:3: What comprises the great Hallel?

E. REVERSION TO THE EXPOSITION OF THE GREAT HALLEL

1. II:12: Now that there is the great Hallel, how come we recite this one Psa. 113-

118? It is because it contains these five references: the exodus from Egypt,

dividing the Reed Sea, giving of the Torah, resurrection of the dead, and the

anguish of the Messiah.

a. II:13: And said R. Yohanan, “‘The phrase, ‘not to us, Lord, not to us’

refers to the subjugation to the kingdoms.”

2. II:14: Continuation of II:12. R. Nahman bar Isaac said, “It is because it alludes to the deliverance of the souls of the righteous from Gehenna: ‘I beseech you, Lord, deliver my soul’ (Psa. 116:4).”

[Mishnah Pesahim 10.7 (quote is from Neusner’s Babylonian Talmud]

 

R. Zera said in the name of R. Abbahu according to others, it was taught in a Baraitha: Ten things have been said in connection with the cup used for grace after meals. It requires to be rinsed and washed, it must be undiluted and full, it requires crowning and wrapping, it must be taken up with both hands and placed in the right hand, it must be raised a handbreadth from the ground, and he who says the blessing must fix his eyes on it. Some add that he must send it round to the members of his household. R. Johanan said: We only know of four: rinsing, washing, undiluted and full. A Tanna taught: Rinsing refers to the inside, washing to the outside. R. Johanan said: Whoever says the blessing over a full cup is given an inheritance without bounds, as it says, And full with the blessing of the Lord; possess thou the sea and the south. R. Jose son of R. Hanina says: He is privileged to inherit two worlds, this world and the next.

[babylonian Berakhot 51a-(quote is from the Soncino Talmud)]

 

PHILO

 

There are several passages in Philo (Yonge – public domain) that are also interesting concerning the Eucharist including part of a quote from Euripedes -

 

And who can pour over the happy soul which proffers its own reason as the most sacred cup, the holy goblets of true joy, except the cup-bearer of God, the master of the feast, the word? not differing from the draught itself, but being itself in an unmixed state, the pure delight and sweetness, and pouring forth, and joy, and ambrosial medicine of pleasure and happiness; if we too may, for a moment, employ the language of the poets. Philo[On Dreams, That They Are God-Sent (2.249)]

 

On which account he will neither obey every one who imposes a command upon him, not even if he threatens him with insults, and tortures, and even still more formidable evils; but he will bear a gallant spirit, and will cry out in reply to such menaces--

"Yes, burn and scorch my flesh, and glut your hate,

Drinking my life-warm blood; for heaven's stars

Shall quit their place, and darken 'neath the earth,

And earth rise up and take the place of heaven,

Before you wring from me a word of Flattery."{4}{this is a fragment of Euripides from the Syleus. Fr. 2.} Philo[Every Good Man is Free (25)]

 

I would rather choose to die than to speak merely with the object of gratifying the ear, and to conceal the truth, disregarding all thought of what is really advantageous. "Now then," as the tragedian says: "Now then let fire, let biting steel come on; Burn, scorch my flesh, and glut your appetite, Drinking my dark, warm blood; for here I swear, Sooner shall those bright stars which deck the heaven Descend beneath the earth, the earth itself Soar upwards to the sky, than servile words Of flattery creep from out my mouth to thee." But the people, when it is the master, cannot endure a statesman of so masculine a spirit, and one who keeps so completely aloof from the passions, from pleasure, from fear, from grief, from desire; but it arrests its well-wisher and friend and punishes him as an enemy, in doing which it first of all inflicts upon itself the most grievous of all punishments, namely, ignorance; in consequence of which state it does not itself learn that lesson which is the most beautiful and profitable of all, namely, obedience to its governor, from which the knowledge how to govern subsequently springs. Philo[On Joseph 77-79]

 

NAG HAMMADI

 

The gospel of Philip 75 has the following:

 

…Nothing will be able to receive imperishability if it does not first become a son. But he who has not the ability to receive, how much more will he be unable to give? The cup of prayer contains wine and water, since it is appointed as the type of the blood for which thanks is given. And it is full of the holy spirit, and it belongs to the wholly perfect man. When we drink this, we shall receive for ourselves the perfect man.

 

NEW TESTAMENT APOCHRYPHA

 

they shall be arrayed in royal raiment, and shall put on shining robes; and in joy and exultation both of them shall be, and they shall glorify the Father of the universe, whose majestic light they have received, and they have been enlightened by the sight of Him their Lord, whose ambrosial food they have received, of which there is no failing at all; and they have drunk also of the wine which brings to them no thirst, neither desire of the flesh; and they have with the living spirit glorified and praised the father of truth and the mother of wisdom. [Acts of Thomas 1.121]

 

PSEUDEPIGRAPHA

 

And Joseph and his brothers eat bread before their father and drank wine, and Jacob rejoiced with exceeding great joy because he saw Joseph eating with his brothers and drinking before him, and he blessed the Creator of all things who had preserved him, and had preserved for him his twelve sons.[Jubilees 45.5

 

IRENAEUS

 

4…But how can they be consistent with themselves, [when they say] that the bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood, if they do not call Himself the Son of the Creator of the world, that is, His Word, through whom the wood fructifies, and the fountains gush forth, and the earth gives “first the blade, then the ear, then the full corn in the ear.” 5. Then, again, how can they say that the flesh, which is nourished with the body of the Lord and with His blood, goes to corruption, and does not partake of life? Let them, therefore, either alter their opinion, or cease from offering the things just mentioned. But our opinion is in accordance with the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn establishes our opinion. For we offer to Him His own, announcing consistently the fellowship and union of the flesh and Spirit. For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of the resurrection to eternity. [Against Heresies Book IV. 18.4-5]

 

3. Vain also are the Ebionites, who do not receive by faith into their soul the union of God and man, but who remain in the old leaven of [the natural] birth, and who do not choose to understand that the Holy Ghost came upon Mary, and the power of the Most High did overshadow her: wherefore also what was generated is a holy thing, and the Son of the Most High God the Father of all, who effected the incarnation of this being, and showed forth a new [kind of] generation; that as by the former generation we inherited death, so by this new generation we might inherit life. Therefore do these men reject the commixture of the heavenly wine, and wish it to be water of the world only, not receiving God so as to have union with Him, but they remain in that Adam who had been conquered and was expelled from Paradise: not considering that as, at the beginning of our formation in Adam, that breath of life which proceeded from God, having been united to what had been fashioned, animated the man, and manifested him as a being endowed with reason; so also, in [the times of] the end, the Word of the Father and the Spirit of God, having become united with the ancient substance of Adam’s formation, rendered man living and perfect, receptive of the perfect Father, in order that as in the natural [Adam] we all were dead, so in the spiritual we may all be made alive. For never at any time did Adam escape the hands of God, to whom the Father speaking, said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness.” And for this reason in the last times (fine), not by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but by the good pleasure of the Father, His hands formed a living man, in order that Adam might be created [again] after the image and likeness of God. [Against Heresies Book V.1.3]

 

2. But vain in every respect are they who despise the entire dispensation of God, and disallow the salvation of the flesh, and treat with contempt its regeneration, maintaining that it is not capable of incorruption. But if this indeed do not attain salvation, then neither did the Lord redeem us with His blood, nor is the cup of the Eucharist the communion of His blood, nor the bread which we break the communion of His body. For blood can only come from veins and flesh, and whatsoever else makes up the substance of man, such as the Word of God was actually made. By His own blood he redeemed us, as also His apostle declares, “In whom we have redemption through His blood, even the remission of sins.” And as we are His members, we are also nourished by means of the creation (and He Himself grants the creation to us, for He causes His sun to rise, and sends rain when He wills). He has acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as His own blood, from which He bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of the creation) He has established as His own body, from which He gives increase to our bodies.

3. When, therefore, the mingled cup and the manufactured bread receives the Word of God, and the Eucharist of the blood and the body of Christ is made, from which things the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they affirm that the flesh is incapable of receiving the gift of God, which is life eternal, which [flesh] is nourished from the body and blood of the Lord, and is a member of Him?—even as the blessed Paul declares in his Epistle to the Ephesians, that “we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.” He does not speak these words of some spiritual and invisible man, for a spirit has not bones nor flesh; but [he refers to] that dispensation [by which the Lord became] an actual man, consisting of flesh, and nerves, and bones,—that [flesh] which is nourished by the cup which is His blood, and receives increase from the bread which is His body. And just as a cutting from the vine planted in the ground fructifies in its season, or as a corn of wheat falling into the earth and becoming decomposed, rises with manifold increase by the Spirit of God, who contains all things, and then, through the wisdom of God, serves for the use of men, and having received the Word of God, becomes the Eucharist, which is the body and blood of Christ; so also our bodies, being nourished by it, and deposited in the earth, and suffering decomposition there, shall rise at their appointed time, the Word of God granting them resurrection to the glory of God, even the Father, who freely gives to this mortal immortality, and to this corruptible incorruption, because the strength of God is made perfect in weakness, in order that we may never become puffed up, as if we had life from ourselves, and exalted against God, our minds becoming ungrateful; but learning by experience that we possess eternal duration from the excelling power of this Being, not from our own nature, we may neither undervalue that glory which surrounds God as He is, nor be ignorant of our own nature, but that we may know what God can effect, and what benefits man receives, and thus never wander from the true comprehension of things as they are, that is, both with regard to God and with regard to man. And might it not be the case, perhaps, as I have already observed, that for this purpose God permitted our resolution into the common dust of mortality, that we, being instructed by every mode, may be accurate in all things for the future, being ignorant neither of God nor of ourselves? [Against Heresies Book V.2.2-3]

 

Now those oblations are not according to the law, the handwriting of which the Lord took away from the midst by cancelling it; but they are according to the Spirit, for we must worship God “in spirit and in truth.”And therefore the oblation of the Eucharist is not a carnal one, but a spiritual; and in this respect it is pure. For we make an oblation to God of the bread and the cup of blessing, giving Him thanks in that He has commanded the earth to bring forth these fruits for our nourishment. And then, when we have perfected the oblation, we invoke the Holy Spirit, that He may exhibit this sacrifice, both the bread the body of Christ, and the cup the blood of Christ, in order that the receivers of these antitypes. may obtain remission of sins and life eternal. Those persons, then, who perform these oblations in remembrance of the Lord, do not fall in with Jewish views, but, performing the service after a spiritual manner, they shall be called sons of wisdom. [Fragments from the Lost Works 37]

 

JUSTIN MARTYR

 

“And the offering of fine flour, sirs,” I said, “which was prescribed to be presented on behalf of those purified from leprosy, was a type of the bread of the Eucharist, the celebration of which our Lord Jesus Christ prescribed, in remembrance of the suffering which He endured on behalf of those who are purified in soul from all iniquity, in order that we may at the same time thank God for having created the world, with all things therein, for the sake of man, and for delivering us from the evil in which we were, and for utterly overthrowing principalities and powers by Him who suffered according to His will. [Dialogue with Trypho 41]

 

“Accordingly, God, anticipating all the sacrifices which we offer through this name, and which Jesus the Christ enjoined us to offer, i.e., in the Eucharist of the bread and the cup, and which are presented by Christians in all places throughout the world, bears witness that they are well-pleasing to Him. But He utterly rejects those presented by you and by those priests of yours, saying, ‘And I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands; for from the rising of the sun to its setting my name is glorified among the Gentiles (He says); but ye profane it.’ Yet even now, in your love of contention, you assert that God does not accept the sacrifices of those who dwelt then in Jerusalem, and were called Israelites; but says that He is pleased with the prayers of the individuals of that nation then dispersed, and calls their prayers sacrifices. Now, that prayers and giving of thanks, when offered by worthy men, are the only perfect and well-pleasing sacrifices to God, I also admit. For such alone Christians have undertaken to offer, and in the remembrance effected by their solid and liquid food, whereby the suffering of the Son of God which He endured is brought to mind…”[Dialogue with Trypho 117]

 

There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to γένοιτο [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion. [First Apology 65]

 

all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. [First Apology 67]

 

CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA

 

There are not, then, in the same Word some “illuminated (gnostics); and some animal (or natural) men;” but all who have abandoned the desires of the flesh are equal and spiritual before the Lord. And again he writes in another place: “For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, and we have all drunk of one cup.” [The Instructor Book I.6]

 

Afterwards the sacred vine produced the prophetic cluster. This was a sign to them, when trained from wandering to their rest; representing the great cluster the Word, bruised for us. For the blood of the grape—that is, the Word—desired to be mixed with water, as His blood is mingled with salvation.

And the blood of the Lord is twofold. For there is the blood of His flesh, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and the spiritual, that by which we are anointed. And to drink the blood of Jesus, is to become partaker of the Lord’s immortality; the Spirit being the energetic principle of the Word, as blood is of flesh.

Accordingly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. And the one, the mixture of wine and water, nourishes to faith; while the other, the Spirit, conducts to immortality.

And the mixture of both—of the water and of the Word—is called Eucharist, renowned and glorious grace; and they who by faith partake of it are sanctified both in body and soul. For the divine mixture, man, the Father’s will has mystically compounded by the Spirit and the Word. For, in truth, the spirit is joined to the soul, which is inspired by it; and the flesh, by reason of which the Word became flesh, to the Word. [The Instructor Book II.2]

 

[desi2007]

In observing the last passover with His disciples, Jesus talked about the symbols of bread and wine represent His body and blood, offererd by Him for passing over our sins. 

 

I do believe sitting down at a meal across the table causes relationships to go deeper. This is why we see Jesus hanging out with people in peoples homes, having meals together. Jesus ate with the sinners and the believers.

 

 

[enoob57]

This seems to address majority of topic posted

Col 2:16-17

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ
NKJV

Love, Steven

[clontzjm]

The Poetry of Jesus at the Last Supper

 

At the last supper, Jesus creates a Hebrew poem by rhyming “body” and “vine” and rhyming “atonement” and “fruit.”

 

Matthew 26:26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and, giving it to the disciples, said, “Take, eat; this is my body {“Body” (גופי)}.” 27 Then he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness {“Atonement” (לכפרת)} of sins. 29 From now on, I tell you, I will never drink of this fruit {“Fruit” (פרי)} of the vine {“Vine” (הגפן)} until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” [The Passion: The Poetry of God]

 

Body and Vine are Hebrew puns for each other

“Body” (גופי)

“Vine” (הגפן)

 

Atonement and Fruit are Hebrew puns for each other

“Atonement” (לכפרת)

“Fruit” (פרי)

 

J. Clontz – Editor of The Comprehensive New Testament