Believer.Evermore Posted April 21, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 5 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/08/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2013 The word "subtil" is the english translation of the hebrew word " `aruwm " which comes from the root word " `aram " which means to to be cunning (usually in a bad sense):--X very, beware, take crafty (counsel), be prudent, deal subtilly. Interestingly, the word "naked" is the english translation of the hebrew word " `eyrom " which also comes from the root word " `aram ". Nakedness is evil, for the sight of it leads to carnal desire and carnal desire to sexual activity for its own sake. God created the sexes, male and female, primarily for the pupose of procreation (Gen 1:28 "...Be fruitful, and multiply....." The pleasures of sexual activity are intended as a bonus, an added incentive only. Once their eyes were opened, by the eating of the fruit, they realized that they had been sinning, for they had been having sex with each other only to satisfy their own sefish desires, only for the pleasure of it, and not for the pupose for which God had designed. They were ashamed of their sin and clothed themselves, albeit clumsily, to conceal what they now knew to be the ultimate source of that sin: carnal desire. On top of all that, they knew that they had sinned even further by disobeying the one and only commandment God had given them. No longer innocent, they became crafty, cunning, prudent, and subtle; like the serpent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xero Posted April 21, 2013 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 365 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 6 Joined: 03/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 21, 2013 Then how come the Son of God was made manifest in the physical, and yet before Abraham was, He is? And what about heaven? Is it a physical place or a spiritual place? If it's spiritual, how come it didn't exist in the physical first, but that we are told in Matthew 6 to pray to God for His Kingdom - of heaven - to come to earth? And what about Angels? And demons? And satan? Ephesians 5:31 "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." Thats the answer to all of your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 22, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2013 Genesis Chapter 3: 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. 8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” 11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” 12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.” 13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” So their eyes were opened. But this is the question: Who told you that you were naked? I believe that they were not naked beforehand, but that God's spiritual covering over them which was removed at the time of their disobedience, leaving them entirely exposed once they separated themselves from Him in partaking of the knowledge of good and evil when they ate of the tree's fruit; and they realised that this covering had been removed from them as soon as they ate, and now: butt naked and ashamed of the exposure. I know this is different from the traditional take on this portion of scripture, that they had been naked all that time and the knowledge of good and evil was the thing that revealed this to them, but when compared to the rest of scripture, it's clear to me that the explanation above is the actual case and state of events. All thoughts RESPECTFULLY welcome. Blessings 1 Jesus, thy blood and righteousness My beauty are, my glorious dress; 'Midst flaming worlds, in these arrayed, With joy shall I lift up my head. 2 Bold shall I stand in thy great day; For who aught to my charge shall lay? Fully absolved through these I am From sin and fear, from guilt and shame. 3 When from the dust of death I rise To claim my mansion in the skies, Ev'n then this shall be all my plea, Jesus hath lived, hath died, for me. 4 Jesus, be endless praise to thee, Whose boundless mercy hath for me— For me a full atonement made, An everlasting ransom paid. 5 O let the dead now hear thy voice; Now bid thy banished ones rejoice; Their beauty this, their glorious dress, Jesus, thy blood and righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted April 22, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 22, 2013 The word "subtil" is the english translation of the hebrew word " `aruwm " which comes from the root word " `aram " which means to to be cunning (usually in a bad sense):--X very, beware, take crafty (counsel), be prudent, deal subtilly. Interestingly, the word "naked" is the english translation of the hebrew word " `eyrom " which also comes from the root word " `aram ". Nakedness is evil, for the sight of it leads to carnal desire and carnal desire to sexual activity for its own sake. God created the sexes, male and female, primarily for the pupose of procreation (Gen 1:28 "...Be fruitful, and multiply....." The pleasures of sexual activity are intended as a bonus, an added incentive only. Once their eyes were opened, by the eating of the fruit, they realized that they had been sinning, for they had been having sex with each other only to satisfy their own sefish desires, only for the pleasure of it, and not for the pupose for which God had designed. They were ashamed of their sin and clothed themselves, albeit clumsily, to conceal what they now knew to be the ultimate source of that sin: carnal desire. On top of all that, they knew that they had sinned even further by disobeying the one and only commandment God had given them. No longer innocent, they became crafty, cunning, prudent, and subtle; like the serpent. This is just so wrong I hardly know where to begin. First of all, God said what He made was GOOD, not evil and they were in their birth day suits. Sexual activity, as you put it, is not evil . It it were only for reproduction, why bother to make it feel good too...The Bible never says that sex is evil...now the desires of the heart may be evil, but that is up to you to judge..and we start with ourself, not our neighbor. Using Gen 1:28 as your 'proof' text that sex is evil and only intended for reproduction is , pardon the pun, non-productive; that is, unfaithful to the text and the intent of the text and taken completely out of context, bent out of shape and...well I'm sure you get the idea. The verse simply states God's intentions ... you should remember that Adam and Eve were the only couple on earth, so OF COURSE God said multixxxply. The problem with your bonus, is that most people expect it more than once a year. Unless you are a eunuch, a sworn celibate or a member of a weird cult, that is not going to happen. By you, I mean anyone and not you personally. The sin committed by Eve and then Adam was disobedience. The rest you made up. Disclaimer: I really do not care how often anyone takes advantage of the marriage bed. That, is none of my business. The only thing I care about here, is the mangling of God's word stated as though it were fact. Your post is simply another very bad personal opinion, that, up to now, wiser folks than me, have ignored. Without prejudice of course 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted April 22, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted April 22, 2013 There is absolutely nothing wrong with being naked. When I would to do good evil is present with me. Adam and Eve sought to cover their shame and mistakenly thought the problem was outside of themselves when in fact it was sin in them that was the issue. I have many times over sought to change the world so that I could be less offended by what I see but the evil is sin inside of me. Yes there is evil outside of me and sometimes I may even rightly assess it as such but the ultimate problem is with my 'eyes' that I inherited from my parents, Adam and Eve. The solution is going blind. Jhn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. Jesus came to take away our sin. He came to help us become blind. He came to help us become as little children. Now of course that does not mean we can all simply go about naked as there is a reason God put some animal skins on them. Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. Peace is only in Christ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted April 23, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 There is absolutely nothing wrong with being naked. When I would to do good evil is present with me. Adam and Eve sought to cover their shame and mistakenly thought the problem was outside of themselves when in fact it was sin in them that was the issue. I have many times over sought to change the world so that I could be less offended by what I see but the evil is sin inside of me. Yes there is evil outside of me and sometimes I may even rightly assess it as such but the ultimate problem is with my 'eyes' that I inherited from my parents, Adam and Eve. The solution is going blind. Jhn 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. Jesus came to take away our sin. He came to help us become blind. He came to help us become as little children. Now of course that does not mean we can all simply go about naked as there is a reason God put some animal skins on them. Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. Peace is only in Christ :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaJosiah Posted April 24, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/06/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/23/1988 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Genesis Chapter 3: 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. 8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” 11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” 12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.” 13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” So their eyes were opened. But this is the question: Who told you that you were naked? I believe that they were not naked beforehand, but that God's spiritual covering over them which was removed at the time of their disobedience, leaving them entirely exposed once they separated themselves from Him in partaking of the knowledge of good and evil when they ate of the tree's fruit; and they realised that this covering had been removed from them as soon as they ate, and now: butt naked and ashamed of the exposure. I know this is different from the traditional take on this portion of scripture, that they had been naked all that time and the knowledge of good and evil was the thing that revealed this to them, but when compared to the rest of scripture, it's clear to me that the explanation above is the actual case and state of events. All thoughts RESPECTFULLY welcome. Blessings This verse has always puzzled me....... I apprecaite the posts here..... I assume that they were naked (I think that IS the most likely interpretation). And it DOES seem (at least) that God is suggesting such was bad. Why? I have no intention of getting into the "naked - good or bad?" debate, but those who view it as bad do so because they think it promotes lust in fallen people. But prior to the fall, there were no fallen people (they was also only one couple - essentially married - commanded to have sex). To me, this just makes the verse even more of a puzzle. One rather liberal Christian years ago gave this explanation: Quite uniquely among the Jews, nudity was considered very wrong - this is not really biblical but a case of a cultural morality; Jews were well known for this morality. This just got "fed BACK" into Scripture as this account was developed. That would make a lot of sense and explain much, but I don't share that view of Scripture. ???????????? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted April 26, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted April 26, 2013 It is quite interesting that being naked gives the connotation that one is exposed and we cannot see God as he is hidden from our eyes except it be that he reveal himself unto us. Those who purify their hearts before him get to see him as Jesus said. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. He bares himself unto us as we clothe ourselves. Just a couple of thoughts regarding the nature of the word naked that is in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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