Who Will Be the Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?

[nebula]

I can see by your answers that if it were up to you, you would erase all the negative imperatives in Scripture. But I will indulge your game of semantics and answer your questions. I would credit them for NOT being selfish. I would credit them for NOT harboring unforgiveness. I would encourage the rich young ruler to NOT hold on to his riches.

Game? I am not playing games. Why are you responding with an emotional-type of outburst?

What did Jesus say the greatest command was? Was it a doing or a not doing?

He said, "Love the Lord your God...."

And the second greatest command, again, "Love your neighbor...."

"If I [obey whatever command] but do not love, it profits me nothing."

Do you truly believe the Lord is measuring and weighing us by our sin or by our love?

[Willa]

OneLight, Nebula and all, I agree that humility is the key and love is expressed in humble serventhood. It is our humility that makes us obedient and not resist God's leading or His grace.

My husband is a prime example of being a servent. He was perfectly willing to sweep floors and clean up after people constructing our church without being asked. He has very little talent in carpentry, plumbing etc, but he could sweep floors and he was faithful to be their daily.

I wish I were more like him. I don't recognize that type of need, and I don't even think in those terms. I might think to get a bottle of cold water for those who are working, or to do first aide, be a "go fer" something of that order, but I would just try to walk around the junk on the floor. Isn't that awful?

It is true that God gives rewards for things we have done, but in the end, in heaven, we recognize that anything we do is enabled and motivated by God and we really haven't done much at all. So we cast our crowns at the feet of Jesus, Who is our all in all.

God looks at the heart. That is why David was chosen over his brothers. He was considered least in the family, a lowly stinkin' shepherd boy. Not the best looking. Not the affluent or influencial, but the one at the bottom of the barrell.

[Elhanan]

I can see by your answers that if it were up to you, you would erase all the negative imperatives in Scripture. But I will indulge your game of semantics and answer your questions. I would credit them for NOT being selfish. I would credit them for NOT harboring unforgiveness. I would encourage the rich young ruler to NOT hold on to his riches.

Game? I am not playing games. Why are you responding with an emotional-type of outburst?

What did Jesus say the greatest command was? Was it a doing or a not doing?

He said, "Love the Lord your God...."

And the second greatest command, again, "Love your neighbor...."

"If I [obey whatever command] but do not love, it profits me nothing."

Do you truly believe the Lord is measuring and weighing us by our sin or by our love?

It amazes me that you refuse to acknowledge that there are both negative and positive imperatives in Scripture. Or, you acknowledge both but choose to solely focus on the positive commands. That of course is your prerogative and since it appears to work for you, I commended you for it. I also stated that for others, negative commands may have more influence in their decision to obey God. If that works for them, great. The big problem with your argument is that you present a logical fallacy otherwise known as a false alternative. You claim that we should only focus or do the positive imperatives and wholly ignore the other alternative which is to not do the negative imperatives. Doing both results in the same thing - obedience. Did not Jesus say that if we love him, we are to obey his commands? Jesus didn't distinguish between his negative and positive commands so why do you insist that others do it your way only. You may be treading on being legalistic. Again your last question is an either-or fallacy. It is not one or the other, it is both. I can choose to focus on doing positive acts which please him and I can refrain from sinning which also pleases him - both the positive and the negative actions manifest love for God.

[OneLight]

I can see by your answers that if it were up to you, you would erase all the negative imperatives in Scripture. But I will indulge your game of semantics and answer your questions. I would credit them for NOT being selfish. I would credit them for NOT harboring unforgiveness. I would encourage the rich young ruler to NOT hold on to his riches.

Game? I am not playing games. Why are you responding with an emotional-type of outburst?

What did Jesus say the greatest command was? Was it a doing or a not doing?

He said, "Love the Lord your God...."

And the second greatest command, again, "Love your neighbor...."

"If I [obey whatever command] but do not love, it profits me nothing."

Do you truly believe the Lord is measuring and weighing us by our sin or by our love?

It amazes me that you refuse to acknowledge that there are both negative and positive imperatives in Scripture. Or, you acknowledge both but choose to solely focus on the positive commands. That of course is your prerogative and since it appears to work for you, I commended you for it. I also stated that for others, negative commands may have more influence in their decision to obey God. If that works for them, great. The big problem with your argument is that you present a logical fallacy otherwise known as a false alternative. You claim that we should only focus or do the positive imperatives and wholly ignore the other alternative which is to not do the negative imperatives. Doing both results in the same thing - obedience. Did not Jesus say that if we love him, we are to obey his commands? Jesus didn't distinguish between his negative and positive commands so why do you insist that others do it your way only. You may be treading on being legalistic. Again your last question is an either-or fallacy. It is not one or the other, it is both. I can choose to focus on doing positive acts which please him and I can refrain from sinning which also pleases him - both the positive and the negative actions manifest love for God.

The thread is about who will be the greatest. You seem to want to take this down a different road when all our sister is doing is speaking of who will be the greatest and why. Love is the greatest of all. The worst of all will not even enter His rest.

[Guest]

It amazes me that you refuse to acknowledge that there are both negative and positive imperatives in Scripture..... Again your last question is an either-or fallacy. It is not one or the other, it is both. I can choose to focus on doing positive acts which please him and I can refrain from sinning which also pleases him - both the positive and the negative actions manifest love for God....

Negative Or No, It's Either Jesus

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:13-17

Or The Highway

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

See

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13

~

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:8-11

[nebula]

It amazes me that you refuse to acknowledge that there are both negative and positive imperatives in Scripture. Or, you acknowledge both but choose to solely focus on the positive commands. That of course is your prerogative and since it appears to work for you, I commended you for it. I also stated that for others, negative commands may have more influence in their decision to obey God. If that works for them, great. The big problem with your argument is that you present a logical fallacy otherwise known as a false alternative. You claim that we should only focus or do the positive imperatives and wholly ignore the other alternative which is to not do the negative imperatives. Doing both results in the same thing - obedience. Did not Jesus say that if we love him, we are to obey his commands? Jesus didn't distinguish between his negative and positive commands so why do you insist that others do it your way only. You may be treading on being legalistic. Again your last question is an either-or fallacy. It is not one or the other, it is both. I can choose to focus on doing positive acts which please him and I can refrain from sinning which also pleases him - both the positive and the negative actions manifest love for God.

But the thread isn't about "what works for you."

The question posed is: "But I keep thinking about all the various comments Jesus made that indicate there will be a status in the kingdom of God."

Thus, the OP is asking what is God's standard, not how we walk out perfection.

Do you see the difference?

[Guest]

It amazes me that you refuse to acknowledge.... why do you insist that others do it your way....

But the thread isn't about "what works for you."

The question posed is: "But I keep thinking about all the various comments Jesus made that indicate there will be a status in the kingdom of God."

Thus, the OP is asking what is God's standard, not how we walk out perfection.

Do you see the difference?

Yeap~!

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

God's Standard

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:8-11

Is Jesus

Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:4-11

And I Love Him So

[Elhanan]

The thread is about who will be the greatest. You seem to want to take this down a different road when all our sister is doing is speaking of who will be the greatest and why. Love is the greatest of all. The worst of all will not even enter His rest.

Let me recap. When JTC started this thread he opined that the degree of sin in our lives might affect our status level in heaven. I agreed that this was a possibility and stated my reasons for believing so. Nebula ventured the opinion that we should not focus on sin and instead concentrate on the positive imperatives of Scripture. I do not disagree with this as there are many positive commands in the Bible to encourage us in our walk. By the same token, there are many negative imperatives in Scripture to warn us in the event we start to falter in the faith. All I am saying is that at different times in our lives the call to obedience and humility may be marked by heeding a negative scriptural imperative or at other times by heeding a positive scriptural imperative. If I understand Nebula correctly, it appears that one need only concentrate on focusing on the positive to the neglect of the negative and therein our difference lies. So how am I taking this down the wrong road as you say?

[nebula]

Elhanan - from what I've seen posted by the man who started this thread, he and I share a common struggle. Self-hatred.

Self-haters are sin conscious. Actually, we are over-sin conscious. In fact, our sin is all we think about, all we see, and what we constantly beat ourselves up over.

So my appeal was directed towards him and his statement, even though I used "we" in there. Because it is what I believe he needs to hear as much as I need to hear it.

Until we see ourselves as being clothed in Christ's righteousness, we will never truly know the joy of the Lord.

[Elhanan]

Thank you for the clarification nebula - based on your personal description I now understand the context of your answers - therefore please forgive me for writing that you were playing semantics as I can see how you would choose to focus on the positive.