Sure God heals, will He also cause sickness, do I have this wrong?

[He giveth more grace]

Timothy was a godly and holy man, a servant of Paul and of God who was often sick.

"[Timothy] Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities." 1 Timothy 5:23

Are you sure

[JTC]

First of all, I don't think we know everything about what is going on. That verse in John's gospel about the man born blind is so very troubling. Taken at face value then God causes sickness and disease if it suits His purposes. And even that is troubling. One way I reconcile that is God is immortal and timeless. To God our lives are over in an instant, and if He needed someone blind to prove a point, He did so. I think, and hope, that whenever God uses a person in this fashion that person's reward in Heaven is great. Although for the most part, and for everyday thinking, all good things come from God, and almost ONLY good things come from God. Although there are exceptions.

I think that for us, if we're sick and we think God caused it, He probably didn't. However, He often uses that sickness to bring one or more people closer to Him. I'm sure he did that with me a few times. I don't think He made me get sick, but He used it to bring me closer to Him.

[Willa]

We are told that some get weak and sick and even die because they do not discern the body of Christ in communion by not examining themselves, but have made it a profane feast. 1 Cor 11:27-30, 20-22. 1Cor 5:1-5 tells them to deliver people who are in gross sexual immorality over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, that their spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. Such activity should never be condoned in the Church.

Sickness was sometimes a sign of God's judgement, but in the book of Job it was a sign of the trying of his faith, proving his righteousness. The worst thing we can do is become one of Job's 3 friends and try to figure out what they did to deserve this.

I nearly always pray for healing. But I also pray that God would use illness for His glory till He completes that healing. I do not think that sin, pain and sickness are God's perfect will for our lives.

No, I do not think that God will heal everyone, and I don't know all the answers on this subject. But I do trust in a loving God who has compassion on those who come to Him; and we have a great High Priest who has been tried in all ways like we have, and who is able to intercede for us in heaven. He suffered on a cross, and knew real pain. Heb. 4:14-16. Isaiah 53:4-6

[Brennno]

For me if God says that he is good, all the time, and he is perfect love, and he does not torment, and he does not lie, he is the author / giver of life and good things, the author of hope, the one who we can always trust and find comfort and healing and hope in...... like... John10:10 Jesus says "the theif comes to steal, kill and destroy. ...I came that they may enjoy and have life and have it in abundance (to the full,till it overflows) Verse11.. I am the good shepherd, The good shepherd risks and lays down his (own) life for his sheep. All of Psalm 23 speaks of the goodness of God and how we should and can put our whole trust in him, because he will keep us safe. he sets a table before us in the presence of our enemies, now that could be seen a bit negative i guess. But as i see it we are only at the table because our head has been annointed with the oil and we are there to win. My god has never placed me at the table with my enemy for me to lose the battle and go away broken so i can learn some life lesson. if i loose it's my bad, because god gave the tools and it was his plan to win. If Jesus Knowing/being God in his mind and in his nature as a human being, wanted to usher in the kingdom of heaven by saying to his crew "Cure the sick,raise the dead,cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. It makes no sense to me why he has to make some more sick people. he is going to undo the good work he is already doing. Jesus does not have to do the devils job, the devil wants to destroy us and we in our brokenness and pride of life, do a pretty good job to. Sure there is some people because of the fall that are born with defects or ailments on the outside. but we are all busted on the inside some how..... Proverbs 14:30 A calm and undisturbed mind and heart are the life and health of the body, but envy and jealousy, and rath are like rottenness of the bones. I suspect there will be a bunch of people that may disagree with me. But on my journey, i am learning to keep it simple with god or the devil will tell me crap and i won't get my healings etc... because i got to many unanswered  but why god questions and that effects my faith. I used to be a really big questioner. 

[missmuffet]

God does not "cause" sickness but he allows it to happen for his Glory.God has a purpose for everything that happens in our lives.

[Guest Butero]

I was reading a thread where one person opined that God does not cause sickness, that things like heart attacks just happen with age. I did not interject a different opinion, as it might have diverted the threads actual topic, which was not a discussion of the theology of sickness or God's role in things we consider unpleasant. In any case, my mind jumped to the question, is it true that God does not cause sickness?

A number of passages came to my mind in vague terms, so I looked them up to see them anew. The first that came to my mind was Exodus 4:11:

The LORD said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

while on that same page I noticed this:

Exodus 4: 6 The LORD furthermore said to him, "Now put your hand into your bosom." So he put his hand into his bosom, and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.

and thinking of Moses, I recalled Num 12: 9 :

So the anger of the LORD burned against them and He departed. 10 But when the cloud had withdrawn from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous, as white as snow.

Now, we might come up with the idea that these leprosy one are exceptions and I would agree, these were special cases for special purposes. Still, if this is not God causing them who is?

I know that some will say ( at least to themselves if not here on the forums) : "but that was the old testament God, He got angry a lot, but He mellowed out for the New Testament". So let's go there:

In the book of acts (you porbably know the story, if not, look it up) we see:

acts 5:4 Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last . . .

... Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well." 10And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

Now I know this is not sickness, it is only death after all, and it doesn't say that God did it, but I doubt Peter did it either, do we just suppose it was a coincidence that they died? Since they wern't sick, let's look elswhere:

1 cor 11

28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number have died.

Again, I know you sharp theological lawyers can point out it does not say God did it, moving on . . .

john 9:2 And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" 3Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

I don't know how you understand that, but that sounds to me like God had this man born blind, to serve His puropses, and why not, after all, Pauls points out in Romans 9:

The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

This last one is not an example of God making people ill, malformed, or killing them, it is about His sovereignty His absolute right to do with His creation, just as He pleases, and not have to answer to His creation for His actions. If God does these things, He does them for His reasons, His righteius reasons, and whether we like them or not, they are good.

You know, when a child does something wrong, really wrong, it is not uncommon for the mother to go into a state of denial. "Oh, my Johnny would never do anything like that, he is a good boy. A man commits some greivous sin, a serious crime, often those who know him do not believe it, they want for him to be innocent, but they have never really known him as he is sometimes, they just see one side of him. Sometimes a woman willk marry a man, all her friends warned her about him, that he is not right for her, there is something about him that they can see, that is not good, but she is blinded by her love for him, often to regret it once she gets to know him in marriage.

If these cases are true in human relationships, how much more true is it when we want to come to God's defense when He is accused of wrongdoing? The problem is not in us wanting to defend Him, it is that we refuse to see Him as He is, and we remake Him into a God of how we think he ought to be. It is not that we are wrong to defend Him, it is that we are wrong to think of what he does, as wrong, not matter how it appears to us. God, is always right, in Him no evil exists.

Now, back to the original comment that got me going in the first place - That God does not do these thing, and illness can come about just becuase the body deteriorates with age . . .

if that is true, and I am not denying that, why is it the case in the first place. Is not the deterioration of aging, a part of the curse, that God placed on the creation in the first place? If so, how can we say, God did not do it? It is o.k. I think that we can say that some things that we do not like, are God's doing, but we mustn't accuse God of wrong doing, just because we do not like that outcome.

Thoughts and comments invited, agreement or contrary opinions, even valid correction would be awesome, so, do I have this all wrong?

I pretty much agree with your conclusions Omegaman.  I came to see this truth a couple of years ago.  I sometimes wonder if we are afraid to admit such things, are afraid that it will turn some away from God, or can't believe in a God that would cause sickness and destruction.  One example that comes to my mind is how God dealt with Herod when he gave an oration and didn't give God the glory, in the book of Acts.  We want to believe that "God is love," and while that may be true, it is not his only characteristic.  We water things down to the point where many have lost all fear of God.  This is a very good post, and I appreciate your openess to truth, even when it goes contrary to convertional teaching.

[missmuffet]

 

I was reading a thread where one person opined that God does not cause sickness, that things like heart attacks just happen with age. I did not interject a different opinion, as it might have diverted the threads actual topic, which was not a discussion of the theology of sickness or God's role in things we consider unpleasant. In any case, my mind jumped to the question, is it true that God does not cause sickness?

A number of passages came to my mind in vague terms, so I looked them up to see them anew. The first that came to my mind was Exodus 4:11:

The LORD said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

while on that same page I noticed this:

Exodus 4: 6 The LORD furthermore said to him, "Now put your hand into your bosom." So he put his hand into his bosom, and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.

and thinking of Moses, I recalled Num 12: 9 :

So the anger of the LORD burned against them and He departed. 10 But when the cloud had withdrawn from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous, as white as snow.

Now, we might come up with the idea that these leprosy one are exceptions and I would agree, these were special cases for special purposes. Still, if this is not God causing them who is?

I know that some will say ( at least to themselves if not here on the forums) : "but that was the old testament God, He got angry a lot, but He mellowed out for the New Testament". So let's go there:

In the book of acts (you porbably know the story, if not, look it up) we see:

acts 5:4 Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last . . .

... Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well." 10And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

Now I know this is not sickness, it is only death after all, and it doesn't say that God did it, but I doubt Peter did it either, do we just suppose it was a coincidence that they died? Since they wern't sick, let's look elswhere:

1 cor 11

28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number have died.

Again, I know you sharp theological lawyers can point out it does not say God did it, moving on . . .

john 9:2 And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" 3Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

I don't know how you understand that, but that sounds to me like God had this man born blind, to serve His puropses, and why not, after all, Pauls points out in Romans 9:

The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

This last one is not an example of God making people ill, malformed, or killing them, it is about His sovereignty His absolute right to do with His creation, just as He pleases, and not have to answer to His creation for His actions. If God does these things, He does them for His reasons, His righteius reasons, and whether we like them or not, they are good.

You know, when a child does something wrong, really wrong, it is not uncommon for the mother to go into a state of denial. "Oh, my Johnny would never do anything like that, he is a good boy. A man commits some greivous sin, a serious crime, often those who know him do not believe it, they want for him to be innocent, but they have never really known him as he is sometimes, they just see one side of him. Sometimes a woman willk marry a man, all her friends warned her about him, that he is not right for her, there is something about him that they can see, that is not good, but she is blinded by her love for him, often to regret it once she gets to know him in marriage.

If these cases are true in human relationships, how much more true is it when we want to come to God's defense when He is accused of wrongdoing? The problem is not in us wanting to defend Him, it is that we refuse to see Him as He is, and we remake Him into a God of how we think he ought to be. It is not that we are wrong to defend Him, it is that we are wrong to think of what he does, as wrong, not matter how it appears to us. God, is always right, in Him no evil exists.

Now, back to the original comment that got me going in the first place - That God does not do these thing, and illness can come about just becuase the body deteriorates with age . . .

if that is true, and I am not denying that, why is it the case in the first place. Is not the deterioration of aging, a part of the curse, that God placed on the creation in the first place? If so, how can we say, God did not do it? It is o.k. I think that we can say that some things that we do not like, are God's doing, but we mustn't accuse God of wrong doing, just because we do not like that outcome.

Thoughts and comments invited, agreement or contrary opinions, even valid correction would be awesome, so, do I have this all wrong?

I pretty much agree with your conclusions Omegaman.  I came to see this truth a couple of years ago.  I sometimes wonder if we are afraid to admit such things, are afraid that it will turn some away from God, or can't believe in a God that would cause sickness and destruction.  One example that comes to my mind is how God dealt with Herod when he gave an oration and didn't give God the glory, in the book of Acts.  We want to believe that "God is love," and while that may be true, it is not his only characteristic.  We water things down to the point where many have lost all fear of God.  This is a very good post, and I appreciate your openess to truth, even when it goes contrary to convertional teaching.

 

I think many people who say they are believers turn away from God when illness or tragedy strikes.That is where Faith comes in.

[enoob57]

 

I think many people who say they are believers turn away from God when illness or tragedy strikes.That is where Faith comes in.

Those born of God can only reply Jn 6:68-69

 

 

An excellent observation of fact in the substance of faith:

1 Peter 1:7-8

7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes,

though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,

NKJV

 

Rom 10:17

 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

NKJV

Heb 11:1

11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

NKJV

Faith is formed By His Word and Spiritual substance is born in hope in That Word! Seen so beautifully in the resolve of the Men of the Fiery furnace

  

Dan 3:16-18

16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego answered and said to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer you in this matter.

17 If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king.

18 But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up."

NKJV

 

The faith of these men was rewarded in a marvelous way as they were untouched by their trial and they came forth as praise and honor to The Heart of God!

 

Love, Steven

 

[Littlelambseativy]

As with Job, did God not permit those things to come upon him because Satan wanted it to see if he would turn from God in his time of trial? Are we any better? I would assume that since we are God's children that Satan will do anything to try to turn us against God and Jesus. God is Good, Perfect and Pure Love - can harm come from One who is like that ??

[rjp34652]

I was reading a thread where one person opined that God does not cause sickness, that things like heart attacks just happen with age. I did not interject a different opinion, as it might have diverted the threads actual topic, which was not a discussion of the theology of sickness or God's role in things we consider unpleasant. In any case, my mind jumped to the question, is it true that God does not cause sickness?

A number of passages came to my mind in vague terms, so I looked them up to see them anew. The first that came to my mind was Exodus 4:11:

The LORD said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

Now, back to the original comment that got me going in the first place - That God does not do these thing, and illness can come about just becuase the body deteriorates with age . . .

if that is true, and I am not denying that, why is it the case in the first place. Is not the deterioration of aging, a part of the curse, that God placed on the creation in the first place? If so, how can we say, God did not do it? It is o.k. I think that we can say that some things that we do not like, are God's doing, but we mustn't accuse God of wrong doing, just because we do not like that outcome.

Thoughts and comments invited, agreement or contrary opinions, even valid correction would be awesome, so, do I have this all wrong?

 

Anyone who states flatly that God does not or can not cause infirmity upon a person is not speaking with any sort of Biblical knowledge.    As the initial post of this thread more than adequately states, God is able.........

 

You cannot put God in a box.   If you try to do so, your philosophy will collapse because it does not stand on the firm ground of Biblical intent or physical experience.

 

And then there is the cross.

 

We are, each of us, called to carry our cross.   For some it may be a relationship that God forbids, for others it may be a financial opportunity that we are required to deny.   Some are called to forsake a satisfying career for the sake of ministering the gospel and some must suffer physical torment and crippling diseases.  Everyone who lands in this situation initially calls to God and asks why He has done this thing.

 

The answer is always the same, "it's none of your business."

 

Once accepted, however, grand things may be revealed to he or she so as to bear the cross with more grace than had been expected.  

 

Sickness, injury, loss and death do come to the sons and daughters of God, but we are all of us called to bear it with as much dignity and grace as we are given.

 

Jesus and the great prophets were all driven into the desert.  Bearing a personal cross is the same as wandering in a personal desert.   Why does God do this?  He does it for many reasons, but one of them is so that we may know and accept how very much we depend upon Him and His providence.    

 

In the dispensation of grace God never disappoints.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...