King Saul's possession

[missmuffet]

What should we learn from the life of King Saul.

http://www.gotquestions.org/life-Saul.html

[Willa]

The Holy Spirit came to dwell in believes who have received Christ and are born again. This did not happen in the OT. The Spirit came upon people for certain purposes but came and went. That is why David prayed : take not thy Holy spirit from me.

Satanic spirits can not exist where the Holy Spirit dwells. They can harrass us and torment us without possessing us. We are God's posession and do not have to put up with the lies of satan. But Paul said he had been tormented to keep him from becoming proud due to the visions he had experienced. He was not demon possessed.

I think the opposite was true of King Saul. He seemed to be more possessed than not. Yet David always gave him honor. That truly amazes me. So often I have not given honor to people who God has set in authority whom I consider to be ungodly, and it really convicts me when I read about David's attitude. I am thinking specificly of our president, who seems to be very anti Christian.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

[Guest ninhao]

Joh 3:3-5 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:9-10 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (10) Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

1Pe 1:9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. (10) Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: (11) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

[BlessedByTheBest]

interesting... then their faith in God's promise of salvation is what brought upon the prophets the grace of His spirit??

what of the other believers then? different age, different power and purposes concerning the outpouring??

[Guest ninhao]

interesting... then their faith in God's promise of salvation is what brought upon the prophets the grace of His spirit??

Faith has always been the conduit for God's grace.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Heb 11:4-13 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. (5) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (6) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (7) By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. (8) By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. (9) By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: (10) For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (11) Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. (12) Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. (13) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

what of the other believers then? different age, different power and purposes concerning the outpouring??

The Holy Spirit gave NT believers power to present the Gospel to the ends of the World which was not required before. Same Holy Spirit different motive.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Dispensationalism tends to change the Holy Spirit from OT to NT.

Heb_13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

[BlessedByTheBest]

yes, i realize God is unchanging brother ninhao.

just want to make sure you know...

my original question concerned differences in the operation of the Holy Spirit, not differences in the Holy Spirit Himself.

and of course, how His motives apply to the questions concerning Saul's troubled spirit in that age.

are we to conclude that because God did not use all believers before Pentecost to prophesy(for example) that they were not indwelt with His Holy Spirit?

or is this speculation?

thanks again, and love to you.

[Guest ninhao]

....

are we to conclude that because God did not use all believers before Pentecost to prophesy(for example) that they were not indwelt with His Holy Spirit?

or is this speculation?

thanks again, and love to you.

Yes this is speculation. Why would you think an OT believer wasn't indwelt with the Holy Spirit ?

Do you believe the OT Saints were born again ?

[BlessedByTheBest]

Yes this is speculation. Why would you think an OT believer wasn't indwelt with the Holy Spirit ?

Do you believe the OT Saints were born again ?

i am unsure, which is why i am asking. perhaps someone with more time in the scriptures can shed some light.

is there anywhere to plainly see in scripture that OT saints were 'born-again' by their faith before Christ?

my understanding was that while we are saved by faith either way(before/after Christ), there was a difference in the operation of the Holy Spirit before Pentecost.

for example, God's Holy Spirit led Israel through the wilderness, cloud by day, and fire by night. were they all indwelt with the Holy Spirit?

this is why i am unsure concerning Saul's "possession".

[Sevenseas]

were they all indwelt with the Holy Spirit?

Short answer: no

I am just very short on time and will be until Monday...this is a subject that is, IMO, really important, one reason being the number of modern day Christians

who act autonomously as though they were an OT prophet.

But no, the Israelites were not all filled with the Holy Spirit as we are today. We do not read that they were anywhere in the OT; however, certain people did have

the Holy Spirit rest upon them or even, it seems, in them...but those are exceptions.

[Guest ninhao]

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:9-10 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? (10) Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Jesus expected Nicodemus to know the concept of being born again. It was not new to the NT but maybe explained in more detail.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

OT Saints belonged to Christ and thus had the Holy Spirit dwell in them.

Gen 41:38-39 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is? (39) And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:

Dan 6:3 Then this Daniel was preferred above the presidents and princes, because an excellent spirit was in him; and the king thought to set him over the whole realm.

Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people,saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

The Holy Spirit has always indwelt believers of God because without this indwelling no man could be considered righteous imo.

I am not a theologian and would like to see Mr Shiloh's position on this.