Gay Christians who choose celibacy.....

[MorningGlory]

If they choose to do it this way and abstain, then good for them. I think they deserve their salvation.

No. They do not "deserve" salvation. They are not Christians to start with. Salvation is a gift, not a reward or a prize. No one deserves it.

I have to disagree, Shiloh. It seems to me that they are trying very hard at being Christians, followers of Christ. Of course they don't deserve salvation; as you said, none of us do. It would seem to follow that anyone who turns their back on their homosexual nature, and follows the Lord, is repentenant.

When you say that none of us deserve salvation, I understand what you mean, but we do deserve it because has God has decided that we do. It depends how you define 'deserve'.

Let's put it this way - they deserve it as much as any of us do.

Yes; we don't deserve eternal life because of our own efforts but because of God's mercy and love for us.

[missmuffet]

I'm not saying they can't or won't be saved. I'm saying there should be visible fruit of salvation as well. Because there are an untold number of people in the world who call themselves Christians who are not saved, and they say they are Christians, yet Christ does not know them and He will deny that He ever knew them. Part of eventual sanctification is fighting all the lusts of the flesh. And if they are mature enough to accept His calling them into a celibate life, then they should also be mature enough to combat homosexual thoughts. That's all I'm saying. There should be a righting of wrong as with us all. I stopped stealing when I came to Christ, but I still much fight to put to death the temptations when they arise, and fight to cut off that part of the flesh so I have complete victory. I struggle with lusts of the flesh, I cannot simply ignore them, though it does not take away my salvation, I MUST move forward in sanctification.

I'm not saying they can't or won't be saved. I'm saying there should be visible fruit of salvation as well. Because there are an untold number of people in the world who call themselves Christians who are not saved, and they say they are Christians, yet Christ does not know them and He will deny that He ever knew them. Part of eventual sanctification is fighting all the lusts of the flesh. And if they are mature enough to accept His calling them into a celibate life, then they should also be mature enough to combat homosexual thoughts. That's all I'm saying. There should be a righting of wrong as with us all. I stopped stealing when I came to Christ, but I still much fight to put to death the temptations when they arise, and fight to cut off that part of the flesh so I have complete victory. I struggle with lusts of the flesh, I cannot simply ignore them, though it does not take away my salvation, I MUST move forward in sanctification.

We are not to judge.Vengence Is Mine Said The Lord.

[lance.dunlop]

I never said I was judging. You said I was judging. I'm just saying what the Bible says, what God commands, how we change when we have God in us.

[Guest shiloh357]

If they choose to do it this way and abstain, then good for them. I think they deserve their salvation.

No. They do not "deserve" salvation. They are not Christians to start with. Salvation is a gift, not a reward or a prize. No one deserves it.

I disagree shiloh.God loves each and everyone of us homosexual or not.If a homosexual makes a tough choice to be obedient to Him and be celeibate then I think they are making Godly choices.I pray that God will give them the strength to continue that choice.

The Godly choice is to repent of homosexuality completely. If they were being obedient, they would repent and abominate that immoral lifestyle. These people, according to the OP, don't see being gay as a sin and they are still gay but choosing celibacy. Celibacy is not a godly choice because God doesn't command Christians to be celibate. That is a personal choice, not a godly one. A genuine believer would not be gay, or in any seek to condone homosexuality. There are no gay Christians. That is a contradiction in terms. There are ex-gays who are believers who struggle with temptaton and are truly seeking to serve God. But the examples in the OP are not Christians. They may be religious, but they are not Christians.

[Tinky]

I believe sin is sin. Being an unrepentant liar will keep you out of heaven as much as being an unrepentant homosexual. If they repent of their lifestyle, and truly place their faith in Jesus, God can forgive and heal them as He does any other sinner.

[Guest shiloh357]

[uote]I am confused Shiloh if they are abstaining from the sinful nature how are they not Christians? /quote]

Celibacy is a meaningless act. It isn't even biblical. They see no problem with being gay. The OP says that they don't

If they do good works as James 2:24 states if they believe in the lord jesus as Christ as John 3:16 states and they keep the commandments how are they not Christian?

You have brought up James 2:24 and John 3:16. Let's look at each of those. James 2:24 says that a man is justified by his works and not by faith alone. If you examine the line of thought in the surrounding verses from 2:14 to the end of the chapter, what you will note is that Jame is talking about being justified in the eyes of other people James' point is that it is our works that affirm our profession of faith. If you say you are a Christian you will be justified in that claim if your claim is accompanied by corresponding actions. James is not talking about justification before God the way Paul does in Romans chapter three. A life that agrees with one's profession of faith is the fruit of salvation. Homosexuality does not agree with a genuine profession of faith, Jesus and as such proves that the claim to be a Christian is false so long as one remains gay.

As for John 3:16. "whosoever believeth..." It is the same as above. Those who truly believe will show by their actions. To believe the Gospel is not to merely assent with one's mind, the truths of Scripure, but to believe enough to actully put the truth of Scripture to practice. Furthermore, salvation is a trasformational encounter with Jesus. Because the Bible abominates homosexuality in both old and New Testaments, one cannot remain gay and be truly new creation in Christ (Rom. 5:21) True believing means truly accepting Jesus as both Savior and Lord. It means submitting to His authority.

It is important to note that there is a form of Christianity that does not have Christ in it. And it has a large following. They mouth the words and offer lip service, but have never truly committed their lives to Jesus. They participate in the external Christian community, but quite often, like a dog returns to its vomit, they eventually return to their sin and are worse off than they were before (II Pet. 2:22)

seems to me like if there is a heaven they have an equal shot at getting there. If we are arguing semantics on deserved isn't that really just it? whether salvation is a gift does not change the fact that it is deserved or not one can deserve a gift deserving something is not exclusive to rewards. for example at Christmas when I was a child I got a bike for being a good boy and doing my chores.

Gifts are not deserved. They never are. This is not semantics. You cannot compare your bike at Christmas with the gift of eternal life. No one has a "shot" at salvation. Salvation is not something I can obtain, myself. It is offered and given freely. Whether you accep it or reject it is a choice each person makes.

You can't deserve heaven because God doesn't judge you on how good you are in terms of who gets to be in heaven or not. He judges you on the basis of righteousness and you can only get righteousness from God. And the only way you can become righteous is to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

You can work your fingers to the bone trying to be good enough, but that is like trying to enter your prize-winning lasagna in an apple pie contest at the state fair. It simply won't work. God isn't interested in people performing well enough for them. They can't possibly do that because God's standard is perfection and no one can meet that standard. God's program is all about restoring man back to Himself.

[revolutionist90]

I think the difference is if a person believes that claiming homosexuality is a sin or if a person believes homosexual behavior is a sin. If a person who believes that homosexuality is a sin and thus a choice then the gay Christians are not actually Christians. They choose to be homosexuals thus they choose to claim the sin instead of rebuking the sin and saying something along the lines of "I am heterosexual but I suffer from homosexual lusts/sins/addictions". If they choose to be homosexual then they are still living in sin and I don't believe that simply believing in Jesus Christ is all that is needed; it is the first step but a Christian also has to walk with God. Many people who warm the church pews can state that they believe in Christ but if they are still living the path of the world and the devil then it leaves a question mark. Also a simple "following the rules" is not a guarantee that they will enter the gates of heaven so just because they are celibate does not mean they will enter the gates (remember 1 Corinth 6:9 and Math 1:21-23)

On the flip side if a person believes that only homosexual behavior is the sin then these guys are doing fine and will still enter the gates because they are being celibate.

[BlessedByTheBest]

to me, a repentant homosexual seeking to turn away from their sexual immorality by celibacy.. is the beginning stage of what i imagine some may go through in their walk with Christ.

we all go through a process, and each of us are unique as far as the speed and stages of sanctification we must experience.

through a pact of celibacy, one can more easily crucify the flesh daily while allowing God to transform them.

i have done the same in order to abstain from falling back into the sin of fornication.

i would liken it to prayer and fasting.. i can pray to God, but if i fast and pray, then He knows i mean business.

celibacy is showing God you mean business.

if they are not truly seeking to change though, it does seem pointless to me... you must be born again Nicodemus!

God bless.

[~candice~]

It isn't a sin to be tempted. It's a sin to act on it. So if some are tempted to same sex acts, and don't act on it, how is that any different to a person who gets tempted to feast (gluttony) and doesn't act on it? Why call them non Christians???

[missmuffet]

It isn't a sin to be tempted. It's a sin to act on it. So if some are tempted to same sex acts, and don't act on it, how is that any different to a person who gets tempted to feast (gluttony) and doesn't act on it? Why call them non Christians???

I agree.